Vicente Sanfuentes: Chileno is a Fascist
After trying to make the point that this new Los Mono group is a washed out commercial success bereft of identity and historical consciousness, I exported my bitching onto the comments of blog-star Leo Prieto's buzzing about the first Chilean band to become a YouTube hit.
Scroll down and keep scrolling down through dozens of comments, the squeeky sound of fellatio is abruptly silenced: enter Chileno Comment #40, a miracle that it got published, I've since been banned - either that or the Most Technical Man in Chile can't move on from TypeKey, which I registered for, and it still tells me:
You are not allowed to post comments.
boooo.
Anyway, at least I got one comment in and, admittedly, I did throw out some Southern Cone Pride! nonsense to lighten things up but nothing prepared me for the response by Los Mono creator Vicente Sanfuentes himself, none other than the Original Hamster, who slapped back with:
So anyway I would have posted my reply to Vicente Sanfuentes and gone about my business but Leo threw this wacky TypeKey curveball, so all I can do is repost my comment here, and hopefully Vicente will find it, and read it, and weep:
Scroll down and keep scrolling down through dozens of comments, the squeeky sound of fellatio is abruptly silenced: enter Chileno Comment #40, a miracle that it got published, I've since been banned - either that or the Most Technical Man in Chile can't move on from TypeKey, which I registered for, and it still tells me:
You are not allowed to post comments.
boooo.
Anyway, at least I got one comment in and, admittedly, I did throw out some Southern Cone Pride! nonsense to lighten things up but nothing prepared me for the response by Los Mono creator Vicente Sanfuentes himself, none other than the Original Hamster, who slapped back with:
Lo chileno se re escribe todo los dias, no hay una cosa asi como "lo chileno" seria una lata que todo sonara a violeta parra o victor jaraWhich is actually a more or less intelligent comment, although he was a victim of a nuanced form of BCS - Blog Commenters Syndrome where you start out even-headed then progressively *warm up* into the near-flame of a fascism accusation. I've been there. And I've also accused plenty of my readers of being fascist but in my defense I think I've consistently been on less shaky ground than Vicente Sanfuentes. For God's sake one of my commenters signed in as Pinochet.
sinergia es el epitome de lo chileno? lucybell? a mi me suenan parecidos a red hot chili peppers o a grupos brit pop respectivamente. aparte, todo grupo debiera ser una postal nacional? jamas postulamos al cargo de embajadores chilenos suena a una limitante, nada que ver con libertad artistica. y hacerle un juicio a una banda porque dentro de su libertad decidio explorar otros temas y no el de "la patria", me parece fascista, como menos.
So anyway I would have posted my reply to Vicente Sanfuentes and gone about my business but Leo threw this wacky TypeKey curveball, so all I can do is repost my comment here, and hopefully Vicente will find it, and read it, and weep:
>>>Lo chileno se re escribe todo los dias, no hay una cosa asi como "lo chileno" seria una lata que todo sonara a violeta parra o victor jaraAnd if you'll allow me to make a comment on my own comment, this really gets to the crux of the matter. I took Saul Landau's course on Latin American revolutions through film over a summer and I think it was him who made the point about individuality vs. individualism . Individuality is a Person reaching her potential through the strength of community, a consciousness of where she stands in relation to others. In the Landau context I'm assuming it's something collectivist or Marxist. Individualism is capitalist, selfish, and denies ones indebtedness to his community. Los Mono is a hit, a product, something that will, or perhaps already is, doing well on the global market. In Chile, the free, global market that trumpets individualism over individuality owes itself directly to fascism. I'm not calling Vicente Sanfuentes fascist, but it'd behoove him to give credit where credit is due.
Entonces tú y Pinochet estarían perfectamente de acuerdo...si kerís hablar del fascismo ;-)
Porqué? Porque mientras tú alabas esta re-invención diaria chilena - y como lo describes suena super linda y progresiva - niegas el hecho de que él quien re-escribió Chile más fuertemente era Pinochet mismo. La escena artística vaporizó, y en su lugar vino la mierda lado-b extranjera. Y algo del lado-a tb, pero el asunto es que, como sabes, todo "lo chileno" es decir la weá que representaba el pueblo, un pueblo que hizo Chile el país más politizada del mundo, se lo extinguieron.
Vicente, Los Mono es sin duda un producto de eso. OBVIO que Uds. tienen el derecho de hacer cualquier cosa que a Uds. les gusta, y me encanta la historia que Leo relata relata sobre como Uds rechazaron la imposición de los culia'os en Canal 13 - ni importa cual era su idea. TAMPOCO estoy diciendo que volvamos a Victor Jara (aunque decir que Victor Jara representa fascismo me confunde un poco ;-). TB tienes algo de razón sobre LucyBell, puede ser un mal ejemplo, y aún si fuera un buen ejemplo, creo que toda la música se logra más por ser influenciado por otros partes. No soy pro-insularidad ni digo que la música tiene que ser un funcionamiento de la embajada.
Pero SÍ lo que me preocupa es un producto musical que se ve y escucha como aspiradora de la influencia extranjera sin tener nada propio suyo. Cantar nueva canción en 2007 estaría ridículo. Pero igual de ridículo es cantar como si no tienes historia ni identidad que te hace único en el mundo.
















17 Comments:
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I'll responder en español más abajo pero first I'll summarize what you just said in English:
So this Julio guy "calls me out" on the fact that I don't "get" Vicente and a bunch of other bands that I've never heard of. Fair enough. To that I say: we're not talking about the other shit that Vicente does, nor his colleagues - we're analyzing a single piece of music & video.
In a perfect world I'd become an overnight expert and back up everything with detailed and obscure references - but so would his buddy Vicente do some research on me before calling me a fascist - right?
Julio then goes into a rather tiresome, self-righteous rant about how the Internet is bad because people who don't know what they're talking about can spout out about anything. Yet apart from referencing other groups, he fails to say anything himself. Who should I blame for his boorishness, the Internet?
Maybe I just don't "get it" because I'm not as versed in this niche group as he is, and for him that's where the discussion ends. But the last time I checked, intelligent people give reasons for their opinions. Otherwise their arguments fall flat.
Now, my direct response to Julio:
>>>Los Mono es "un hit"...?
No. Llegar al portal de YouTube no significa nada. Ni para Leo Prieto que celebró eso vehementemente en el título de su último entrada.
>>>parece que no tienes idea de quién es Vicente Sanfuentes...
Tienes razón. Y me gustaría cachar más de su música y la de sus compadres que mencionas. Pero eso es completamente irrelevante. El comentario que estoy haciendo stá basado en mi impresión de Los Mono dentro de su video y canción Promesas. Nada más. Eso es lo que Leo stá celebrando, y lo que llegó al portal de YouTube (pero no es hit, según tú).
Tu hipócrita, cliché y aburridísima crítica del "pobre del Internet" se auto-cumple por tu propia falta de capacidad de discutir inteligentemente sobre un tópico, wn. Poder hacer referencia a otros grupos stá bien pero no eres nada más que un imbécil si no puedes explicar PORQUE Los Mono no es un "producto" (eso era tu queja), tampoco acercas mi punto mayor que Los Mono, en este video no lleva nada de su propio cultura hacia el escenario internacional. Puede ser que yo esté equivocado, y me gustaría discutir porque esté equivocado, pero tú aparentemente no eres capaz de discutir las cosas inteligentemente. Fuiste a Diego Portales?
Julio, porque importa quien es Hamster y su relacion con el padrisimo Atom y lo famoso que son en europalandia?
Atom rescato algo de la musica latina...se baso mucho de su fama mainstream en remakes de los hits o por lo menos ritmos Latinos...
Un europeo quien se canso de lo frio de su musica y mudo a Chile.
Hablamos del R. Villalobos cuya musica se funda en una busqueda de ritmos y sonidos fundamentales...que por consecuencia informa sus ritmos que mueven Berlin y miles de sus fans.
i think you must listen "los tetas" and "florcita motuda" and if the monos sell out, i hope so, as the who...
(10 min later)
the who the band...
and listen my bloddy music ya blodddy outsida'
Tomas - thanks for helping articulate what Julio couldn't. Being ignorant of those groups myself I can only speculate that Atom's "rescuing" of the Latin Sound is nice. Back to Los Mono, if Atom's "rescuing of latin sound" is anything like the latin sound in "Promesas" then I'd say fine. You're closer to home than Europe but you're still only halfway there. Venezuela kinda. Again that's fine if that's what you like but I see a lot more richness and authenticity in bands like los tres which show that "Chile" has so much more than a typical, bouncy hip-hop sound of the Caribbean.
Hey Claude,
Hoy dia escuchando el radio en internet kexp.org destacaron a Dj Bitman y Funky C.
El New York Post, creo, estaba muy feliz con el nuevo album de Funky C.
Shilenos en Nueva York. Mira..
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>>>We fought for that right many years.
What the hell are you talking about?
Everybody knows the US played a major role in the '73 coup - but it was also the US that backed up the "no" vote. If it weren't for the US, Pinochet would most likely have stayed on as president. Even now, this nominal "Democracy" that you, Julio, "fought for" is hardly a haven of free speech. In fact, in just about all traditional media there is intense censorship occurring all the time, the press is a duopoly - it's well documented. The Internet is prolly the freest of media, but by no means did the Chilean people "fight for" this right it just came into Chile like it did everywhere else in the world, and you guys are having to deal with it.
FYI when you talk about the Internet you make make me want to hang myself out of boredom. If you weren't such an egotistical poser, you'd take the time to research our names. You would find something. But no. You're too caught up in yourself, bragging about how *you* appear in google as if I should be impressed? As if I don't make a living getting people's names in google (and you better watch out Julio Osses) - man, your bedazzlement with the Web reveals what you really are - a third world hick just arrived in the big city, showing his new flashy pants. Well watch out, City Slicker. You're making a fool of yourself big time.
And BTW Mr. Anti-Facho, Sr. Guerrero contra represion, calling people "homosexual" ceased to be a meaningful insult in urban areas in like the 80's...if not way before. Of course, we all know that in Santiago, this Beacon of Freedom and Democracy, in 1995 about 5 years after the "Chilean people rose up and - with a little help from the world's biggest super power - kinda ousted Pinochet, Santiago police conducted a violent raid against gay clubs in Santiago.
What freedoms did you fight for? When? How?
Chile is a nation of Farmers trying to become Urban and that's fine but don't pretend like you're anything resembling an advanced society, you're simply not, Farmer, especially if you still consider homosexuality shameful.
>>>Not the first time some facho calls me Imbécil
"Facho" or not, I'm not surprised.
Hello
Vicente here, i found the comment, i was expecting something like that happened (leo banning you or something), but anyway, if for some reason you thought that i was calling you a fascist, im deeply sorry. I don't think that about you at all. I was only judging that line of thoughts.
I happen to find this discussion very interesting (if we keep it like educated people), and i still insist on the idea of not being a self declared chilean cultural embassador. That, nowadays, is completely out of my artistic range or interest.
And please, pinochet!? completely out of the matter of discussion, or at least i never included him.
I find the title of this post to be a complete descontextualization (?) of what i said, and i think it was done in purpose.
all the best
vicente
Hey Vicente, glad you found this post. You're right: the title was ironic sensationalism and I'm glad you recognized it as such. I know you weren't accusing me personally.
But since you did bring up fascism, and I see the fascist legacy of Pinochet as having a dramatic influence on Chilean artistic culture, something which every Chilean artist inherits just by breathing the air here (do with it what they please), I think Pinochet is very relevant.
Also, I need to take something back. When going off on Julio I kinda lost it and wrote:
but so would his buddy Vicente do some research on me before calling me a fascist - right?
1. I don't know if (nor do believe that) Julio is your buddy and
2. Again, I don't really think you were calling me a fascist.
Anyway, one thing Julio is right about is that I should listen to more music. Anything online you can point me to, Vicente?
Finally, a good friend emailed and told me I was full of shit and I'm gonna try to get permission to publish his comments on this blog so keep checking back...
Actually i completely agree with your vision of how pinochet completely vaporized the chilean artistic style. Probably my favorite chilean artist is Hugo Moraga, and i can't think of someone more of a survival of those times. I produced Gepe's second album, called Hungria (no joke's please!) almost for free just cause i was completely devastated by his first lp Gepinto. i felt that finally someone took the abandoned torch of the chilean aesthetic. but here i'm talking about musicians with inmense talent and artistic maturity, something i feel i'm eons away (yet).
anyway. actually, i gave the record for free for almost 2 years, never even thinking of making money with it (wich i still haven't) cause the record for us was a complete exploration of the children's world theme. actually, i tried for 2 years to make some sort of collaboration with the ministery of education or something to give it away for free in schools, but nothing worked.
so, everytime the record is called "sell out" or "commercial success" some smile shows up on my face cause till now, i've seen zip
best
vicente
I love Hungary, (not because I'm a fascist ;-) but because I have great memories traveling and visiting friends there. I'm ashamed that I haven't heard Hugo Morago (or maybe I did without knowing it) but I'll try to get my paws on both albums or look it up online.
Also, and I'm not just saying this to suck your dick, but Promesas is kinda growing on me - that happens a lot when I listen to new shit it takes a few times to times to break down resistance.
One question:
>>>abandoned torch of the chilean aesthetic
How would you describe the 'Chilean aesthetic?'
msongs like "maldigo del alto cielo" or "ayudame valentina" from violeta parra could be good examples for music.
juan luis martinez and santos chavez for poetry and paint.
i find a couple of common factors on those works, one would be the denial of logic sophistication. being people from rural areas (they were looked down by the sophiticated folks from the city)
much of their quality came from the simplicity and beauty. two chords and thats it.
also there's the topic selection: so basic and at the same time globally appealing.
Hugo Moraga is a very good example i think, his album called "estelas del destino" could be a good starting point, also his last called "guitarra continuo"
http://www.myspace.com/hugomoraga
"Everybody knows the US played a major role in the '73 coup - but it was also the US that backed up the "no" vote"
hmmm...yes...the US has a long history of fucking up countries (mostly Third World ones) and then coming in to 'set things straight'when its convenient for them - Iraq being a recent case in point.
I can see why Chile should be so grateful to the good 'ol (and highly 'advanced') US of A!
Pato
Wow Pato, way to demonstrate your intelligence once again, by taking the red herring and running with it. Fucking idiot.
You think I'm actually defending the US? And you're someone who's been reading my blog since God-knows-when? Anyone with a room temperature IQ could tell that my point was not to defend US policy, but rather to point out how ridiculous it was for Julio Ossas to say that Chileans had somehow "fought for their rights to free speech" because
A. The transfer back to democracy in the late 80's was enabled largely by the US (that's just a fucking historical fact get over it) and
B. This isn't really a democracy anyway! And as far as free speech goes there is intense, well documented TV censorship while the Chilean gov't won't give Victor Pey his paper back - IMHO it's nothing to be proud of.
Anyway, Julio Ossas was smart enough to remove his comments, proving that he didn't really have it in him to expatiate but rather felt shame for demonstrating what a country-bumpkin jackass he was.
You, Pato, are beyond shame.
Correction: Julio Osses (I have shame).
Its Osses C.hileno.
so, another fact about the Los Monos youtube deal is that it got featured on Kanye West's blog. Although "he" does select and highlight like five things a day, its still really significant.
This is commentary that I was unable to make at Leo Prieto's site. Just when the discussion had a bit of content to it, it gets frozen.
Thank you Sanfuentes for continuing it here. Music and culture and democracy are interesting to me.
"QUE DIVERSION!
La geneologia internautica de como llego Los Monos al Kanye West seria increible conocer.
What about CFunk? I heard them destacado on kexp.org de Seattle. Their beats truly moved me. Los Monos....ehhh...
Dicho eso, el video de Los Monos es la raja. Felicito al disenador or designer, or drawer.
So, que es chileno, que es autentico, como los huasos quincheros, o, el libro, Chilenos en su tinto, o Ricardo Villalobos?
La historia chilena es nasciente, so I think thats why Sanfuentes may reject a fascist imposition of a singular standard for being chilean. I agree.
Chilean music or culture is reinventing itself everyday, but its reinvention rests upon very shallow foundations. This is why everything sounds like something else. This is also the era we are currently in.
Also, the history of Chile makes it impossible to be like the United States..its just too small and too boring and too new. How about slavery to affect the creation of musical expression in a culture. There can't be a Kanye West, or a Frank Sinatra, Django Reinhardt, Buddy Holly or a Grandmaster Flash, or Ice Cube or John Lee Hooker. IMPOSIBLE.
This is why there exists electronic music. It is here and now? Es la musica que salga, que se sienta, que no tiene historia ni futuro y apenas un presente.
Unless you want it to.
I would argue that Los Monos does have something uniquely Chilean, though, aside from the long pasillo and stupid gasfiter workers smock.
The lyrics would be interesting to see. Something about meaning what you say, or cutting through the bullshit and brushing aside the bulllshitters?
Congratulations on Gepe, Vicente. I felt similarly when i heard where his influences. I read a profile of him in Que Pasa which was quite interesting...Parra and other folk musicians were banned from his house, or something, when he was growing up?
Politics is dead.
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