Chileans Should Die By 60
This is Chilean economist Marcel Claude's third Political Irony to Cry About.
Video Number III, featuring great music from a Galaxy Far, Far Away (Cuba), is entitled Best to die by 60. He claims that the Chilean Government's supposed "reforms" to the country's despised retirement pension system based on private investment funds (AFPs) is only furthering such capitalist interests, opening up more channels for AFPs to do their dirty work, and leaving many elderly people with a monthly pension of 55,000 pesos - that's US $110 per month.
At least you can't call them poor.
So if you're like most low-wage Chileans, says Claude, it's Best to Die by 60.
Some background. Back in 1974 Pinochet got away with what Bush pined for in 2005: privatized social security. The result for Chileans has been disastrous.
When discussing US advocates of the Chilean social security model a year ago, the New York Times editorialized:
The editorial goes on to talk of Chile's 2007 "urgently needed", "far reaching reforms" and in defense of their uncritical eye the editorial isn't about Chile. But Claude is, as he wryly notes that while Chilean workers were out on the streets expressing their anger against, among other things, the AFPs, congress slipped these "reforms" by. And what do the reforms do?
Any gringos in the audience take the Chilean example as a stark warning. Bush failed on his first try but it's a sleeping dragon. When Republicans cycle back into power they'll hit this one again, next time with more effectiveness. As the NYT editorial warns:
Video Number III, featuring great music from a Galaxy Far, Far Away (Cuba), is entitled Best to die by 60. He claims that the Chilean Government's supposed "reforms" to the country's despised retirement pension system based on private investment funds (AFPs) is only furthering such capitalist interests, opening up more channels for AFPs to do their dirty work, and leaving many elderly people with a monthly pension of 55,000 pesos - that's US $110 per month.
At least you can't call them poor.
So if you're like most low-wage Chileans, says Claude, it's Best to Die by 60.
Some background. Back in 1974 Pinochet got away with what Bush pined for in 2005: privatized social security. The result for Chileans has been disastrous.
When discussing US advocates of the Chilean social security model a year ago, the New York Times editorialized:
Everyone who followed the debate about privatizing Social Security back in 2005 has vivid memories of the Chilean model. Sometimes it seemed impossible to get through any discussion of fixing Social Security without hearing a free-market paean to the way Chile had given its workers control over their own retirement investments, followed by a demand that the United States get on the same boat.As Claude points out in the video, these private investment firms aren't exactly the most beloved among Chile's workers.
Therefore, it seems worthwhile to note that the Chileans are now bailing water.
The editorial goes on to talk of Chile's 2007 "urgently needed", "far reaching reforms" and in defense of their uncritical eye the editorial isn't about Chile. But Claude is, as he wryly notes that while Chilean workers were out on the streets expressing their anger against, among other things, the AFPs, congress slipped these "reforms" by. And what do the reforms do?
1. Allow for abysmal monthly pensions as low as 55,000 pesosAgain, best to die by 60.
2. Provide tax breaks for business owners relieving them of paying into their workers' AFPs.
3. Allow banks to now act like AFPs. Even more of these beloved brokers.
Any gringos in the audience take the Chilean example as a stark warning. Bush failed on his first try but it's a sleeping dragon. When Republicans cycle back into power they'll hit this one again, next time with more effectiveness. As the NYT editorial warns:
vital lesson to remember from the Chilean experience is that institutions, once dismantled, are not easily restored.
posted by Chileno @ 6:58 PM
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21 Comments:
A modo de comentario, quisiera agregar que mi padre se jubiló por AFP hace más de 10 años y percibe $550.000 mensuales, es decir US$1074 y jamás fue alguien especialmente próspero, te lo aseguro.
Por otra parte, Marcel Claude es un reconocido opinólogo de izquierda, a quien muy pocas personas en Chile consideran digno de ser atendido.
Por cierto que las AFP están haciendo el negocio del siglo con nuestras imposiciones, de eso no me cabe duda alguna, pero por otra parte el enorme caudal de dinero acumulado y severamente controlado por el Estado, ha sido garantía de una balanza de pagos positiva para Chile.
Best regards my friend
>>>mi padre se jubiló por AFP hace más de 10 años y percibe $550.000 mensuales, es decir US$1074 y jamás fue alguien especialmente próspero, te lo aseguro.
Carlos Molina says that his dad is getting a monthly retirement pension of $1,074, and "he was never somebody who was especially prosperous, I swear".
To which I say:
Just how not-prosperous was he, Carlos? If you're so specific about his retirement pension then why do you get all vague about how much he earned? How much did he earn? "Te lo aseguro" doesn't cut it, my friend. Tell me how much he made, then we'll debate that point of yours because even if he was a poor street peddler like you claim there's always luck in private investment, you're not characterizing the plight of the vast majority of Chileans and it's disingenuous to pretend like your individual story is representative of the overall situation.
>>>Marcel Claude es un reconocido opinólogo de izquierda, a quien muy pocas personas en Chile consideran digno de ser atendido.
Yeah, and who are you? Who's Augustin Edwards? What's so dignified about El Mercurio que, como todos saben, miente. You insult my intelligence. First of all, you're totally wrong. Everyone I talk to about him here really appreciates the work he does, and he gets print and air time.
Secondly, even if he is marginal - and that's something he readily admits, and I suspect he's happy for his share of the "liberal" niche - why the fuck should that have any bearing on the validity of his arguments especially in an insular country like Chile who's government and media are obscenely conservative.
Unless you know some juicy scandal, don't try to engage in character assassination, Carlos Molina because because you really, really suck at it.
And besides, it's immoral and if you continue doing it you will totally regret it, Carlos Molina. Keep it clean, and respectful on an intellectual level.
As to your third paragraph (your best yet), can you give a good reason why Chileans should be able to depend on that?
Marcel Claude a mere opinologo? I think not, an opinologo could be any TV animador/a like Felipe Camiroaga, Carla Ochoa or _______, ______,_______.(fill in the blank)
Let's be objective here, if people disagree with Marcel's "izquierdistas" ethos, at least he is bringing an educated argument to the table.
A large percent of people in Chile, tend to easily discredit Marcel by easily labeling him a "commie", when he is talking about the huge gap between classes. It seems that some people are firmly emcompassed in their middle-class fantasy. One day, maybe, the faladueda will wake them up.
Quién soy yo ???...soy simplemente otro opinólogo, al igual que tú gringo. No descalifiques tan rápido tampoco, que tus patinazos seudointelectuales y "bien informados" son dignos de risa: que alguien te dijo, que escuchaste por ahí...no me parece que sean buenas fuentes para alguien que dice dedicarse al periodismo, sino que más bien dignos de un OPINOLOGO.
"Dime de qué te jactas y te diré de qué careces", dice un antiguo proverbio español.
Pero vamos viendo, reconozco que le puse demasiado rápido el timbre izquierdoso encima a Marcel Claude, obviamente de derecha no es, como tampoco de centro, al menos como se concibe el espectro político acá. Es más bien reconocido como un ecologista o un defensor del desarrollo sustentable o como se le llame, por cierto que eso lo hace muy atractivo para algunos intelectuales "progres". Siempre uno puede quedar bien frente a los amigos en un happyhour, al defender los bosques y las ballenas.
Las pensiones, obvio que son proporcionales a la renta media de la vida laboral de cada uno. Pero eso no es tan importante, como sí lo es imponer con regularidad a lo largo de toda esa vida laboral, asumiendo que ésta no venga con cortes. Las lagunas previsionales son mucho más dañinas para una buena pensión que una baja renta.
En este sentido, existe una realidad del empleo en Chile, mucho más dolorosa que un sistema leonino de pensionas, y es que no más del 30% de la fuerza laboral tiene contrato de trabajo, por tanto queda sujeta a imposición voluntaria.
Con respecto a los fondos de pensión disponibles en las AFPs, si te das el trabajo de averiguar sobre las posibilidades de inversión de éstos, verás que son realmente restringidas y que solamente una parte es posible invertir afuera y que el ingreso de posibles nuevos actores en el negocio también está muy regulado.
Ahora bien, también me duelen las comisiones que mensualmente se deja para sí la AFP donde deposito el 14% de mi sueldo y no deja de preocuparme si acaso me alcanzará para cuando supere los 65 años.
Pero te insisto, el problema no son las AFP, sino que es la inestabilidad laboral y los malos sueldos, lo que es harina de otro costal.
La desigualdad en el ingreso es una realidad dura en Chile, pero al menos es tema, cosa que en el resto de latinoamérica ni siquiera alcanza para discusión. No formando parte de las agenda política de ningún gobierno.
En este sentido, mejor ni hablar de USA, donde el 1% de la población detenta una fortuna inimaginable.
chao
>>>Quién soy yo ???...
Don't flatter yourself, it was a rhetorical question.
>>>No descalifiques tan rápido tampoco
You're a slippery, slimy little _________, Carlos Molina. You're the one who tried to disqualify Claude because he's "liberal". All I did was you a taste of your own medicine. Did you like it? No. Now shut up and stop moralizing because you're still sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on, I ain't through with you yet.
>>>"bien informados" son dignos de risa: que alguien te dijo, que escuchaste por ahí...no me parece que sean buenas fuentes para alguien que dice dedicarse al periodismo, sino que más bien dignos de un OPINOLOGO.
Since when did I claim to be doing journalism on this blog? YOU invented that. You're living in an imaginary world. Sure, I've done journalism elsewhere but this is an expat blog and nothing more. If I post a video and provide a summary of the contents of the video and admit to having an opinion about the matter, I'm not bound by any journalistic standards. (Not that most Chilean journalists are, either).
>>>Pero vamos viendo, reconozco que le puse demasiado rápido el timbre izquierdoso encima a Marcel Claude,
Dude, when did I argue that he's NOT a liberal? Yes he's liberal. So what? Unless you're a fascist or a Rush Limbaugh fan there's no shame in having liberal views if they're intelligent and well-argued.
>>>Siempre uno puede quedar bien frente a los amigos en un happyhour, al defender los bosques y las ballenas.
Yes, YOU would perhaps. But in the meantime real people are doing serious work to make the world a better place. To you, apparently, that's shameful.
In terms of what this blog Chileno is about, I don't think I've ever disguised its limitations. I don't pretend to be acting as a journalist, but rather just disseminating my points of view and those of others. When an expert does something worthwhile I link to it or post the video.
Then of course you come along and hurl insults and make sloppy, erroneous characterizations about me and the expert. If you can realize your error, and clean up your act, I'll let it slide. Go back to your desk let's continue the discussion.
I do thank you, Carlos, for making much more coherent argument about your view of where the work situation is failing in Chile.
You claim that AFP's aren't the problem, but shitty wages. I agree that shitty wages definitely are a problem. I wouldn't go so far as to say the AFPs are good, or help the situation at all, no matter how well regulated you claim they are. Thanks for contributing your view, all views are encouraged. I don't know much about AFPs at all, but I don't think privatized social security is a good idea for the United States, because there's too much risk. People shouldn't be forced to gamble their retirement.
That said, you started off this discussion with a personal anecdote, saying your father benefited from AFPs (as if US 1,000 were somehow a wonderful pension). I asked you how much he earned to get that pension, and you still haven't answered. Therefore, on the personal anecdote level, you're still not making a good argument for AFPs.
In terms of inequality, I don't agree with you that "it being a subject of discourse" is good in and of itself because that "Ethical Wage" debate is riddled with public posturing, hypocrisy and populist opportunism. The "Ethical Wage" debate is a farce -- what's needed is a LAW ENFORCING THE ETHICAL WAGE but no politician has the spine to do that. Or cares. IMHO Bachelet hates the poor. I've blogged about it http://c.hileno.com/2007/08/chile-minimum-wage-ethical-salary.html and many other times as well.
And lastly:
>>>mejor ni hablar de USA, donde el 1% de la población detenta una fortuna inimaginable.
I never said inequality wasn't a problem in the US but it's better than Chile, if you go by the World Bank standards. Scroll down to the comments in this post where someone was kind enough to post the latest inequality figures based on the GINI co-efficient:
http://c.hileno.com/2007/10/wena-naty-in-chile-high.html
Chile is still among the worst in the world. Accept the fact that this country has its strengths but mostly it's a severely underdeveloped third world nation with little opportunity and a LOT of exploitation. Admitting your problems is the first step to solving them. I need a drink, goodnight.
Partamos entonces por definir qué es el 3º mundo para Ud señor opinólogo de blog y qué es la distribución del ingreso.
Por favor no me envíe links de páginas que no me interesa visitar, ya que en un rato más me voy al merecido descanso, luego de una ardua jornada construyendo mi querido país.
Realmente preferiría que Ud explique la información contenida en esos links, con sus propias palabras, a ver si su formación liberal y humanista le permiten comprender enunciados económicos y matemáticos.
Por otra parte, habrá de saber Sr. Opinólogo, que los economistas, estadísticos y abogados son capaces de comprobar o más bien interpretar, cualquier cosa, ya que las cifras siempre pueden ser interpretadas a gusto del consumidor, por lo que no venga a pontificar de cosas sobre las cuales no tiene ni la menor idea.
Si desea sostener una conversación o al menos una exposición con buenos argumentos, al menos demuestre que tiene los pergaminos o los conocimientos para hacerlo, de otra manera no hace más que quedar como un simple "opinólogo", al igual que Marcel Claude, con quien no tengo ninguna inquina, solamente creo que no es un personaje relevante. Este señor no es catedrático de ninguna universidad destacada, como tampoco nunca ha ocupado algún cargo de servicio público.
En ese sentido me recuerda mucho a Bonvallet, quien desde la tribuna del periodismo deportivo ha pontificado por muchos años acerca que cómo ganar algo en el fútbol, sin embargo en cuanto tuvo la oportunidad de poner en práctica sus mesiánicos planteamientos, pues fracasó como guatapique.
Repetir al voleo lo que otros dicen lo hacen los papagayos y también los opinólogos.
Gud nait.
Sadly, Carlos, your latest commentary shows you are thoroughly incapable of engaging in an intelligent debate. If you don't wish to follow the links (when you're rested, even) then I'm not going to sit here and explain their contents any more than I already have.
Apparently this is your first time on the Internet?
The Internet was founded on the principle of academic citation and I'm not gonna sit here and reprint every source I use because some douche (look it up) like you doesn't understand the medium he's in.
Secondly, you can't disqualify Marcel as un-academic - but you obviously didn't bother to follow the link I provided to his blog, which states:
Economista y Magister en Economía de la Universidad de Chile. Master of Arts y Candidato a Doctor de la Universidad Católica de Lovaina, Bélgica.
Magister = teaches. He also has a column in El Mostrador and gets interviewed on TV. He is marginal, but he IS relevant, and denying that shows that you're very uninformed about the entire breadth of public discourse in your own country.
I'll choose Claude's arguments over yours any day. And not just because of the arbitrary (albeit important) credentials he has (that you don't), but rather because, unlike you, Claude is able to make coherent, logical arguments, he knows the limitations of his discipline, yet he uses the tools he's trained with to make strong and credible statements about the state of Chile's economy.
The problem with Chile is that it is often credentials here that overshadow the content and substance. You're discounting Claude using that mentality, yet at the same you're totally off base because he DOES have the credentials.
Claude can back his shit up, you can't even tell me how much your father made in order to earn his pension of just over US $1,000/monthly. I've asked you repeatedly, but you keep stunting the conversation with inanities. Let's get down to business, fork over some facts or please just hold your tongue.
Ok, ok...I´ll tell you. My father worked as a technician for a US electronic company for 30 years, here in Chile of course. Is that good enough for you ??
Volvamos sobre Marcel Claude y sus pergaminos, aunque hayan sido obtenidos en la Universidad del Timbuktú, tal como bien dices, es un marginal, al igual que Eduardo Bonvallet.
Supongo que si algún día comentaras algo de chilean soccer, también citarías al "gurú" como fuente digna de crédito, porque "sale en la TV" y alguna tribuna tiene en los medios.
Te puedo recomendar algunos otros buenos economistas, menos faranduleros por cierto, como es el caso de Cristián Larroulet, Eduardo Desearmoux, Patricio Meller o Ricardo Fench Davis, quien me hizo clases en un posgrado que hice, no te diré en qué porque no quiero asustarte con respecto a mi renta.
Estos señores que acabo de nombrar no dirigen fundaciones tránsfugas como la Fundación Terram, desde donde fue despedido hace poco tiempo tu amigo Claude, por extrañas razones, sino que forman parte del staff de catedráticos de las Universidades de Chile y Católica, además de asesorar al gobierno de la Concertación o bien constituir parte de futuros eventuales gabinetes de gobierno. Si quieres saber algo más de ellos no te recomiendo para nada que recurras a www.youtube.com, sino que mejor acudas a publicaciones especializadas de economía y política, a pesar de que eres un fanático sin remedio de internet, pero en fin. Tú sabrás cómo te informas.
Con respecto a la mala distribución del ingreso en Chile, he sido yo quien trajo a colación el tema a tu artículo, admitiendo de entrada la existencia de este drama social. Pero así como reconozco el problema, también tengo la edad y la experiencia suficiente para recordar cómo era Chile hace 35 años, es decir, me acuerdo perfectamente de la época del gobierno de Salvador Allende, quizás más adelante te escriba algo al respecto. Si el sueño y el ánimo me lo permiten.
Si hubieras tenido la oportunidad de visitar Chile durante la década de los ´70, no me cabe duda de que habrías llorado de rabia y tristeza por los enormes y miserables campamentos que existían en todas las ciudades de Chile. Esa sí que era pobreza, cientos de miles de personas hacinadas, viviendo en ranchitos de tablas, sin agua, alcantarillado y menos energía eléctrica.
Desde ese entonces, por la razón que sea, tanto bajo el gobierno militar, como bajo los gobiernos de la Concertación, Chile logró reducir sus índices de pobreza desde un 60% a un 30%, todo bajo indicadores reconocidos mundialmente.
De ser Chile un país con un ingreso per cápita de US$5.000 ha pasado a US$11.000 en la actualidad, en un lapso no mayor a 30 años. No sé si a eso lo seguirás llamando Tercer Mundo, al menos yo no lo hago y sí me esfuerzo día a día para contribuir a través de mi trabajo a la reducción de la pobreza. En vez de criticar por deporte.
Que tengas un buen fin de semana.
>>>Ok, ok...I´ll tell you. My father worked as a technician for a US electronic company for 30 years, here in Chile of course. Is that good enough for you ??
No, it's not. I asked how much he made.
I don't care what your father did, who he worked for or how many times he violently attacked and raped your mother in front of you -- it seems, Carlos Molina, you would tell me anything before revealing his wage. Of course you don't have to tell me anything, but by not revealing his wage you must forfeit a substantial anecdote to your argument that "AFP are just alright". It's up to you, but please:
Shit or get off the pot, dude.
I've come to a conclusion about you, Carlos Molina, based solely on your comments. Fundamentally, you are an extremely boring individual, and in some part of you, you know it. You try to mask that with: self-aggrandizement, blatant disrespect, obscene mud-slinging and patronization.
Let's begin.
Self-aggrandizement
>>>no te diré en qué porque no quiero asustarte con respecto a mi renta.
I don't give a shit about your renta, how much you make, nor does that have any relevance. Civilized people don't flaunt their income. Your dreary and often pointless longwindedness is so apparently a desperate attempt to show that you are educated, and elite -- yet you would stoop to the most banal form of chest puffing. You are so boring.
Disrespect
>>>Volvamos sobre Marcel Claude y sus pergaminos, aunque hayan sido obtenidos en la Universidad del Timbuktú, tal como bien dices, es un marginal, al igual que Eduardo Bonvallet.
You disrespect me because if you had bothered to read my commentary before spouting off with your pre-fabricated & pseudo-elite prattling, you would have noticed that I place much more value on Claude's ability to back his shit up, than on his university qualifications, although YOUR initial stance was that qualifications were where it's at, so I pointed out that in addition to his ability to back his arguments up, he IS relevant in the eyes of the University of Chile Now, you have totally switched up your argument, saying that qualifications don't matter.
You slippery, slimy little piece of shit.
Being slippery and slimy, Carlos, is disrespectful to me. You insult both my time and my intelligence by knocking down the building blocks of a coherent discussion. You don't stick to your arguments, you sit here sliding back and forth, indecisive, unable to defend anything.
But what more could I expect from a mud-slinging gossip monger unable to back up any of his slurs, even, with anything substantial:
Mud-Slinging
>>>donde fue despedido hace poco tiempo tu amigo Claude, por extrañas razones
That is a smear. Do you expect to convince anybody of any intelligence that we shouldn't listen to Claude, based on that? You are ridiculous, Carlos Molina. You have consistently showed yourself unable to substantiate any significant part of this discussion with facts or anecdotes. You resort to gossip mongering befitting an ill-bred brat.
Which is essentially what you are, as far as I can tell. Here comes more evidence:
Patronizing
>>>Pero así como reconozco el problema, también tengo la edad y la experiencia suficiente para recordar cómo era Chile hace 35 años, es decir, me acuerdo perfectamente de la época del gobierno de Salvador Allende, quizás más adelante te escriba algo al respecto.
Save it for your gardener. (te subi tu pelo en reconocer q tienes jardinero?) Save it for someone who likes to be talked down to but don't bore me. I'm not ignorant that the economy was in crisis under Allende largely because of US-funded economic warfare and the struggle to subvert Democracy. Nor am I ignorant that the economy has improved since then. What you're doing is turning a very specific topic into an over-generalized discussion of the merits of Pinochet and the coup. When it comes to specifics of our discussion - Marcel Claude's qualifications, your dad's salary - you get vague, slippery, and nearly libelous. You claim that Claude is irrelevant, but you have absolutely no proof. You bring in a totally irrelevant and non-sequiter analogy about a sports commentator. You talk down to me. Mostly, though, you bore the hell out of me and probably anyone reading your comments, largely because you're incapable of backing your shit up. If only for that last reason, I'm going to let out a resounding:
Fuck you.
Siento mucho gringo que se suba la presión y tengas que recurrir al insulto obsceno, propio de quienes no tienen más argumentos que esgrimir.
Probablemente tu lacho no te dió por el culo anoche, por lo que andas de mal humor. Pero en fn, no es mi problema. Si te gusta darle tribuna a personajillos como Bonvallet, es tu problema, como si acaso te gusta que te den por culo o chuparle la diuca a tus amigos socialistas también.
Espero que esta clase de argumentos te parezcan más sólidos que el manejo de cifras, que obviamente desconoces.
Lo siento por tí, pobre gringo tránsfuga y maricón.
He estado leyendo tu blog y los comentarios que la gente te deja y la verdad es que todo el mundo termina insultándote. Pobre infeliz. Anda a ofrecerte por 5 lucas en el barrio Suecia, quizás allá te vaya mejor que como periodista gringo en un país latino.
I win.
Meanwhile, Carlos Molina reveals his true colors. It only took a little cajoling to get it out of him: he's a potty mouthed shit talker with nothing substantial to back up his arguments.
Espero que esta clase de argumentos te parezcan más sólidos que el manejo de cifras, que obviamente desconoces.
Dude, Carlos, the only concrete statistic you brought into the discussion was:
De ser Chile un país con un ingreso per cápita de US$5.000 ha pasado a US$11.000 en la actualidad,
which I have already "desconocido" because it's over-generalized discussion about improvements in the GDP which have nothing to do with AFPs - at least nothing that you connect, because your style of "discourse" is talking down to me, and mudslinging your intellectual opponents, and when that doesn't work you throw a pathetic temper tantrum.
I don't prefer insults to actual relevant facts, but unfortunately the latter seems impossible with you. When it came time to fork over the info about your dad's wage, which would have provided a substantial anecdote backing up your argument about AFPs, you failed to deliver.
Sure, I eventually used tactical swear words and personal insults against you, but only as a reflection of your despicable manner of treating me and attempting to discredit others without any strength behind your arguments. You insult my intelligence, and that of my readers. I called it like I saw it and you totally freaked out.
Your spluttering, senseless and embittered vitriol is now recorded permanently on the Internet. You are going to regret having made that comment.
If you, Carlos Molina, actually are somebody of some importance in Chile (although your eagerness to slap your name around the Web shows you are a worthless arribista), then you're only helping drive Chile's image into the ground.
Anyway, don't bother commenting anymore there's nothing beneficial that can be wrought from this discussion anymore.
In parting, let me say one more thing about all your "insults":
I'm rubber you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.
wichi-pirichi! Leru-leru!
Qué tendrá que ver Bonvallet con Marcel Claude? Carlos, creo que estás absolutamente confundido. Tal vez era el sueño que tenías, como dijiste, después de una "ardua jornada de trabajo"
Qué tan ardua Carlitos?
Pero sin embargo estarás reconfortado con tu sueldo y serás parte del 10% o harás eso de "construir tu querido país" de forma desinteresada y serás un mártir. Quieres ser mártir Carlitos? Qué eres Carlitos? Y cómo cresta contribuyes a construir este país? Las especificaciones son importantes Carlitos, porque durante toda la dictadura se machacó con el versito ese de "contruir nuestro querido país", sabías?
Por qué no nos contaste algo de verdad sobre ti, algo importante, o será que no haces más que mantener tu parasitaria existencia e insultar de la manera grosera como lo has hecho. Me hiciste ruborizar Carlitos con tus palabrotas, muy feo, muy feo, viniendo de un profesional, no? En que ubicación del exitómetro te encuentras Carlitos? Conoces el exitómetro, cierto?. En Chile este es muy exigente, tanto que muy pero muy pocos suben en la escala.
Dices que recuerdas la extrema pobreza en Chile, que la viste 35 años atrás. Bueno, la extrema pobreza existía desde los años cincuenta y justamente por eso se venían haciendo reformas sociales y los gobiernos con sensibilidad social venían obteniendo más apoyo popular, a ver si te lees un librito de historia, o me vas a decir que la extrema pobreza la inventó la UP, ja!
Además las famosas AFP desplazaron el antiguo sistema solidario de previsión social, haciendo esfumar los antiguos ahorros de miles de trabajadores. Miles salieron para atrás con el asunto. Si hasta los jueces de la Corte Suprema exigen que se les paguen los ahorros que tenían en el antiguo sistema porque las AFP les pagarían varios millones menos, e inventaron un recurso legal (obvio) para aumentarse la jubilación. Pero y los que no son jueces de la Suprema y son simples pelagatos, chilenos honestos y trabajadores de a pie, que hacen ellos Carlitos?
En la Universidad de Chile los funcionarios han peleado por años por este daño previsional que se les causó con el nuevo sistema de AFP, funcionarios con 40 años de servicio recibirán un cantidad muchísimo menor a la que hubieran obtenido con el antiguo sistema de cajas de pensiones. Eso también es parte del plan tan exitoso de reducción de la pobreza que nos nombras Carlitos?
Y por último, cuál es el afán de insultar a los extranjeros? Por si no lo sabes, nuestro país tiene una larga tradición de positivas y constructivas relaciones con extranjeros, desde la misma gesta heroica de independencia, que fue comandada por O'Higgins y San Martin, de nacionalidad argentina. De hecho el cargo de Director Supremo se lo ofrecieron a San Martin, que lo rechazó, siendo nombrado entonces O'higgins que pasó a la historia como el padre de la patria, en vez del argentino. Y sabrás del aporte de intelectuales extranjeros en la cultura de nuestro país, por sólo nombrar uno, Andrés Bello, primer rector y artíficie de la Universidad de Chile, era venezolano.
Entonces Carlitos esa no es manera de tratar a Don Wheel que a mi parecer le tiene un respeto especial a este país, aún cuando existan personas como tú que me hacen dudar de la integridad que podamos tener como chilenos, sinceramente eres una verguenza.
That last post reeked of Claude. Could it be you, Marcel?
Anyway, a couple of brilliant passages:
(...) what's needed is a LAW ENFORCING THE ETHICAL WAGE but no politician has the spine to do that (...)
Oh yeah, and make every single SME in Chile file for bankruptcy, break the economy, cause massive unemployment and shoot up the poverty rate. Yeah, that's really clever. Fucking brilliant!
Putting on law an "ethical wage" nobody is able to pay, except for a few big companies, it's an act of colossal, unforgivable irresponsability. That, my friend, is populism.
(...) then you're only helping drive Chile's image into the ground.
Meh, I thought that was YOUR job, not Carlos'.
Accept the fact that this country has its strengths but mostly it's a severely underdeveloped third world nation with little opportunity and a LOT of exploitation.
Well, the OECD begs to differ. They say Chile can be a developed country by 2020 (if its recommendations are followed).
There's no fucking way a "severely underdeveloped third world nation" can aspire to be a developed country in a time frame of only 13 years.
So who am I going to believe? You, or the OECD?
Time to stop getting your facts from ideologically closed-minded, chronic pessimists such as Claude.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee.
>>>Could it be you, Marcel?
No, but the post was a video of Claude in Spanish and an English language summary of the contents. Your point, Anonymous Coward?
>>>Putting on law an "ethical wage" nobody is able to pay, except for a few big companies, it's an act of colossal, unforgivable irresponsability.
Listen, I'm open to debate about this but please step up and provide some figures. You could very well be right that it's unmanageable for every corner store.
I think my point is that the government should not even discuss it, unless they're going to really tackle the problem. I see the Ethical Wage debate as counterproductive because it's political posturing, and doesn't help anybody.
I mean, if it really would tank the economy, then why would the government entertain the idea? Or why would Pinera propose gov't subsidies to augment the current minimum wage. These politicians are ridiculous, you know. So I think it's better that they shut up until they can actually advance real legislation that really improves people's wages.
Perhaps you're right that it would be an undue strain on the businesses that can't really afford the "ethical" wage, to enforce it upon them. So why not look into a legally enforced tiered system of minimum wages, based on the companies' earnings. Or whatever. I'm not proposing solutions, but rather encouraging Chilean politicians to do their job, and debate the minimum wage in terms of the LAW, not as if they were a sewing circle discussing "lovely ideas, if only".
>>>Time to stop getting your facts from ideologically closed-minded, chronic pessimists such as Claude
If Claude's so irrelevant then why do you get so worked up? "Chronic pessimist" is an inaccurate description, and shows that you haven't listened to him, or talked to him. Time to stop getting your facts from uninformed character-bashers like you, Anonymous Coward.
In my understanding Claude is optimistic that social organization can - and is - accelerating, and can improve standard of living for Chileans. But "optimism" doesn't mean sugarcoating the reality of the situation.
Thanks for referencing the OECD, I'll check it out in closer detail. If, in over a decade from now, Chile becomes "developed" can you please explain to me what wage grocery store clerks will be receiving, in real pesos? Does the OECD measure "development" in terms of the strength of unions?
Before spouting out your fearful vitriol, please try to understand the context of my arguments.
Thanks.
Being a technician for an American electronic company for 30-years, does not cut it, maybe for the proletariatsts.
There is something to be said about the discrete charm of the bourgeoisie.
Carlos Molina is both discrete, and charming.
WILL'S AN OPINOLOGO, WILL'S AN OPINOLOGO...
come on now, sing it like a taunt, like in grade school.
The 5 syllables do have a nice cadence, and the taunt certainly stings. Ouch. For all his inability to carry on a coherent discussion, Carlos Molina really hit hard with that one, I'm still coughing blood. I mean, God, up to the time he graced us with his wisdom I thought my blog was a fount of unimpeachable objectivity.
Still is! Hey Tomas, I'm rubber, you're glue! Ha! cough, splash...ouch
LOL!
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