Chile Blog Review - Olivier Travers - Chileno, Chile Travel Blog, Life in Santiago

Saturday, September 15, 2007

Chile Blog Review - Olivier Travers

This is a review of the blog Olivier Travers

I knew jack-shit about Chile before I moved here, but after nearly two years I'm one of the most knowledgeable people I know. When I go back home people ask me what language they speak in Chile and I can knock that sucker out of the park - Spanish, bitch.

It's interesting, however, to see people who come to Chile who are actually kinda informed. It's admirable, for instance, that Olivier Travers can make quick assessments about Chile that after two years are kinda dawning on me, or to see that they're faster on the draw. For instance, this guy broke the news, via FayerWayer, that Google Maps is out in Chile, something I'd been pining for since before moving to Chile. They also inform us that there is a way to shop online for US products while in Chile while I've been busy pre-ordering cheap ipods and iphones. Well la-dee-da, Olivier is one expert expat.

Smug, self-righteous know-it-all.

He even comes equipped with a glib reference to the Economist article on Chile that I trounced, showing that he's no fool, he knows about world affairs and putting his money where his mouth is.
Gotcha!

Such blind superficiality is revelatory of that blogger's basic composition as a human being: shallow. As Mark Ames says about readers of the Economist:

Thanks to the English magazine's clever rhetorical strategy, calibrating an effective mixture of aristocratic contempt, two-notches-smarter-than-Newsweek diction, and occasional anti-elitist populism to pander to its majority-American readership, readers trust The Economist. They - particularly American readers - trust it because they think it knows more than they do; this is its entire appeal. They even get a sick thrill being talked down to by a dirty old aristocratic prig. For Americans in particular, accustomed to the lifeless, dumbed-down, least-common-denominator prose in their own media, reading The Economist is its own reward, giving them the sense not only that they're smarter than the average Time subscriber, but that it even makes them vaguely decadent, in a literary-aristocratic sort of way. They become smarter by osmosis simply by being in the imagined drawing room of The Economist's wit-slinging editorial offices.

The fact that Olivier Travers is French makes it all the more pathetic. Check out how he's already let the rag's half-baked conclusions poison his mind.

>>>The great thing about emerging economies is that they sometimes leap forward because they have less infrastructure legacy.

Yo, Olivier, the reason your daughter's school is bilingual and has wi-fi is not because Chile is an economic maverick. You think rich-ass schools in the US or France aren't bi-lingual and don't have wi-fi? Parents who buy their kids gadgets galore? (Oh, and by the way Dell is approximately 2x the price in the US so your erroneous glossing over Chile is more a product of wishful thinking than anything).

What's so special about a rich Chilean school being "Bilingual" anyway? While learning Spanish is a fetish for most N. Americans, learning English in Chile is like learning calculus, there's nothing enlightened or culturally profound, it's just vital skills for the upper crust of a third world nation.

Anyway, it's such a "good" school because its patrons are among the top 0.1% of Chile's economy. Not because Chile is somehow now the Scandinavia of the South as all the propaganda would have it.

You can't leave comments on Olivier Travers' blog, he encourages you to comment on your own blog. Well, Mr. Internet Entrepreneur, not all of us are hot shot bloggers like you! So, at this point I will exercise "anti-elitist populism to pander to [my] majority-American readership" and say fuck commenting on that hoity toity prick's blog, comment on it here! Chileno welcomes you! Write a review about Olivier Travers blog in the comments below!

Then get back to work there are a lot more Chile blogs to review!

19 Comments:

At 5:35 PM, RWS said...: Goodness! I confess that I haven't read M. Travers's blog nor lived in the Far South. But, based on extended visits to Chile over the course of a decade, I wouldn't classify it as a third-world nation: even the poorest folk seem no worse off than the poorest in, say, Chicago or rural Alabama, and much, much better off than the average citizen in truly poor nations in Africa and elsewhere. Mightn't we consider Chile to have climbed onto the bottom rungs of the first-world ladder?
At 5:56 PM, Anonymous said...: I took the bait and clicked through - I just threw up in my mouth - Oh My God - I need a moment.
At 8:08 PM, Chileno said...: >>>I wouldn't classify it as a third-world nation:

See the earlier discussion on what "third world" means, it doesn't mean anything. There is absolutely no authoritative index that qualifies a country or region as 3rd world, 2nd world, 1st world, 1/2 world whatever. You don't have any means to classify one way or another, so "changing" Chile from third world to first world is pure wankery. I sling the term "third world" in a futile, impressionistic attempt to hold a hair drier up to a 90 foot snowdrift that is the "economic miracle" of Chile. The concentration of power is horrendous and screwing over 80% of Chileans who could be living MUCH more dignified lives, but they aren't. TV ads are promoting credit for Sept 18 national holiday, people are living day-to-day and barely scraping by, it's pathetic. If you wanna talk about rough parts of the US, fine just try not to get shot going through West-side Santiago. If you wanna call parts of the US third world too, fine, be my guest.

>>>I took the bait and clicked through - I just threw up in my mouth - Oh My God - I need a moment.

Thanks for participating in the review process. For the record you don't have to check out the blogs that I review you can just make judgments based on what I write.
At 8:50 AM, Olivier Travers said...: Thanks a bunch for this very entertaining review, I'm flattered! I'm not sure exactly what axe you have to grind, but it's ready to use for sure. Since there are little facts in your posts that can be argued about, and discussing opinions would be pretty much pointless given I'm shallow enough to read The Economist, let me just point you to the Dell.cl and Dell.com sites. You'll see that the 27' wide screen LCD costs $800K pesos (19% IVA included) in Chile and $1,200 in the US (prior to sales tax which may or may not apply). That's a pre-tax difference of less than 15 percent (which is what matters since last time I looked Dell wasn't responsible for setting tax rates in Chile or anywhere else). Admittedly I haven't checked at their whole catalog but at a quick glance I didn't see a 2x bump on US prices.

Regarding the services offered by public and private schools in France, I'm pretty much sure I know a lot more about that than you do, if you even know anything about it at all, that is. See, I've done my whole education through a mix of private and public French schools across the country, and I have a bunch of family members who are teachers in France right now. What's your actual experience and knowledge of the French school system, mister deep thinker?

The school my daughter goes to used to be attended by my local real estate agent's children. She doesn't strike me as belonging to the upper 0.1 percent of the population, wealth-wise. Upper 20 percent, yeah, most probably. Again, sorry to embarrass you with facts, if only anecdotal. I'm sure you're not letting them stand them in the way of whatever point you're trying to make (oh yes, Chileans are actually dying from hunger in droves in the streets, or something to that effect).
At 10:24 AM, mamacita chilena said...: besides Lanbox, what about Ebay? Does that not count?

Mi internet isn't working well, surprise surprise, so I can't open this dude's page. In fact, I'll be surprised if this comment even posted so I'm not going to be bothered to write anymore.
At 1:42 PM, Chileno said...: Olivier: I'm flattered that you're flattered.

Anyway, it's interesting that "facts" suddenly become important when I seem to fudge them, but you'll happily link to the Economist article that calls Chile "Destitute No More". Whole shanty towns whose roofs cave in from snowfall - that's not destitute? Maybe not. In First World Chile those miserable fucks should be grateful for their particle board - in Brazil it's cardboard!

Okay, you win on Dell but my experience is buying a laptop through Dell USA about US $700, similar computer going for CH $700 (2x as much), that you can buy at Falabella down here. Now, as an internet entrepreneur you should also know that there's a very tiny demographic in Chile and throughout latin america that shops online. So to say Dell is an "option" for Chileans is true, but somewhat disingenuous as people simply don't feel safe buying online. Very different from the US. I don't know about France.

Listen, I spent most of my life in US schools, public and private, and have lotsa friends who are teachers. You're right. When I was six, my private school didn't offer wireless Internet. Therefore, Chile is more advanced.

Yes, I started the ad hominems but you're personal expertise in French education still doesn't convince me. Can you say there are no rich-ass schools in France equipped with wi-fi and whose parents can buy their kids laptops? Do you know ALL of France like you suddenly know ALL of Chile? You're quite a prolific expat but I'm surprised that you don't know that personal experience very rarely equips you for generalizations. Maybe your school isn't .1% richest Chileans, but I'd urge you check - you only need to make about 5k a month for that status. I'd scoff at you if you stooped any lower.

>>>oh yes, Chileans are actually dying from hunger in droves in the streets, or something to that effect

Never said that. My point is that assessing Chile through the lens of the Chilean rich does a gross injustice to the poor. Admittedly, your blog doesn't seem to be written with them in mind as an audience, so you're not flaunting any awareness credentials, I can't hold you to that. But to say that Chile as a nation is leaping ahead of France and the US because it's not tied down by an infrastructural legacy is ridiculous. Yes, the private school (or is it public?) can shell out US $60/month for a broadband connection and wi-fi router, because there's no "infrastructural legacy" holding it back like schools in the US and France, nor is there an infrastructural legacy that prevents parents benefiting from the Chilean oligarchy from from buying avg US$1,000+ laptops for their kids, while the Chilean government BLOCKS THE ONE LAPTOP PER CHILD INITIATIVE IN CHILE...I thought you read FayerWayer? "No infrastructural legacy." You're a shopping cart expat just like the Economist is a shopping cart pundit.

Kyle, your internet connection isn't working because Chile doesn't have the infrastructural legacy that would keep you tied to your computer all day like those backward US and French. Turn off your computer. Go outside, enjoy the Sun. Smile. You're in Chile.
At 3:04 PM, Olivier Travers said...: I never said I knew all of France, and I definitely don't know much about Chile. I also never said this article in The Economist was the final word on poverty in Chile. Stop putting words in my mouth, and stop simplifying my arguments until they sound absurd. You've been arguing with a fictional portrayal of myself, which, if entertaining, is not terribly accurate (at least you got the smug part right). You can have fun talking to a sock puppet or you can try and understand my actual argument.

France private schools are highly constrained by contracts they have with the state, and it's pretty hard for them not to be under such a contract if the education they provide is to get any sort of formal recognition. The result is that there is very little variety and innovation in what's offered to parents and their children in terms of education opportunities, meaning that, yes, I'm fairly confident it's damn hard to find a school in France that offers a bilingual curriculum and incorporates networked computing in the teaching process (which means way more than just having a wifi signal). I'm not basing that just on my quite diverse French school experience from two/three decades ago (by most accounts French schooling degraded since then), I'm also informed by very recent conversations with teachers there (people such as my sister-in-law who's a teacher in a private school looking for another one to work for, meaning she's looking at pretty much all private schools in the Paris area where you're most likely to find top-grade stuff, given how centralized the country is).

I don't dispute that computer retail prices in Chile are significantly more expensive than in the US, which is why I mentioned Dell specifically. Myself I rarely buy that kind of stuff retail, even in the US. At least in Chile manufacturers don't gouge consumers as much as in Europe, and hopefully options such as LanBox will put pressure on local retailers. Consumer confidence with online shopping usually grows over time, I'm not surprised that Chileans still feel wary about it (see, I'll take your word for it).

Is everything perfect in Chile? Of course not, I mentioned slums and poverty myself. Are those slums less bad than slums in neighbor countries, and are a bunch of people upgrading to less awful standards of living? I see many indicators that's what's happening, though I don't pretend I have the final word on that, if only given I'm fresh off the plane.

Do I think Chile has been improving more than you do, and is that judgment based on more than a single article from a single publication or only my own limited anecdotal experience? You bet. You're drawing much more sweeping conclusions from my post that it was intended to lead to. My point is that the international reality is more mixed now than it ever was. I can tell you with a straight face that, as tested with very fresh personal experiences, bus transport from Santiago to Vina is more pleasant and efficient than train transport from Paris to far away suburbs (non-anedctodal explanations can back it up too, given how these services are run, but I'll spare you). That, say, the US got started with electricity a long time ago means they have inefficient 110v and a creaky grid in many states. Doesn't seem crazy that if you installed most of your electric grid in the last two decades, you get better stuff. Likewise, mobile phone usage picked up quicker in some emerging economies than in many western ones, simply because they had few landlines and took a lot of time and money to get one installed. Constraints are not just about money or technology, it's also about the people's state of mind, the legal framework and so on. In some areas, it seems clear to me that Chile is giving more room to innovation (and some of that will no doubt fail) that some richer economies.

I would urge you to look at Hans Rosling's presentations on the ted.com site, it will give you a better idea of where I'm coming from.
At 3:45 PM, Chileno said...: Thanks Olivier for elevating the intelligence of the discussion :-)

You win on France, European bureaucracy is notoriously stifling. I think my "axe to grind" is the notion that Chile is just alright because a small minority of rich have been able to take advantage of the lack of "red tape" in Chile, and carve out a world that suits them. Again, it's a silly axe to grind with you because your blog is about your situation and would be most useful to others who might be relocating to Chile, so discussion of the inequality is somewhat irrelevant to your purposes, I can't fault you for that: foreigners coming to Chile can embed themselves in the aristocracy and live pretty well.

My only point is that technologically, infrastructurally and in many other ways, most Chileans are living in the dumps.

Your examples of how Chile may not be burdened by infrastructural legacy are good, but limited. Perhaps Chile will come in swinging when the Japanese invent the alternative to the Internet in 20 years, but for now this country is way behind in broadband access. I honestly don't know why. It's either infrastructural or the effect of monopolistic practices, but broadband in Chile is among the most expensive in the world. It is, as one Chilean in line at Telefonica explained to me, the "Spanish" model, where large market penetration is not the goal, but rather maxing out fees and charges on an existing, if smaller, market share. That's the way the telecom monopoly operates in Chile. If that isn't a stifling European infrastructural legacy from a company that's been passed around like a football since before Allende, then I don't know what is.

Rich Chileans can afford expensive broadband, poor Chileans chat on IM all day in Internet cafes and really poor Chileans won't access the $100 laptop because the government gave the thumbs down. Chile is the most classist, economically inequal countries in the world. Again, an irrelevant piece of data for the comfort concerns of an expat, but at the same time makes it a tall order to say that Chile is jumping ahead, not tied down by infrastructure or bureaucracy. Money can get you anything in Chile, most Chileans don't have money.

Here's some of Leo Prieto's ranting on the tech subject. I'll check out Hans in a bit.
At 6:14 PM, Olivier Travers said...: I compared Chile to a bunch of other countries (so I don't dispute your "shopping cart expat" portrayal of me, I pretty much admitted it myself on my blog) and Chile ended up far from great but still OK from a broadband perspective. Good enough that we decided to move here while it's a vital tool for us. It's how we work and it's what we do.

We looked at Uruguay for instance where's there's a real (state) monopoly. They end up paying more than Chileans for less bandwidth. Here we have one cable provider (TVR) and about half a dozen DSL providers (Telefonica, Tutopia, Entel, Netline, Telmex, Telsur, GTD Manquehue). TVR introduced a braindead 10Mbps offer (you've got more bandwidth but then you can't use it) but Telsur is starting some interesting things in the south.

If you look at price/bandwidth, Chile is about where France was four years ago, where Portugal was two years ago, and not far from where Spain currently is. Of course that's at market exchange rates, not at purchasing power parity. I agree that broadband needs to become cheaper in local terms to open a much broader market, and I definitely agree that European companies (it's not just the Spaniard model) should learn from Asians and Americans and aim for big reach at low prices. I think there's enough of a competitive dynamic in Chile that broadband may get better in the next couple of years. Broadband sucked in France 5 years ago when FT was the main provider, now it's one the most vibrant markets worldwide thanks to local loop unbundling. I also think that co-use via all these small internet cafes is better than no use, just like it's better to have a bunch of micro buses and taxis than no access to cars and buses at all. After all Koreans are broadband gods and they do a lot of that from cafes.

I have a friend in France who's part of a France Telecom fiber optic trial, he has 100 Mbps upstream and downstream bandwidth. That's what you get on one end of the spectrum. But I also have employees in the US with worse connections than my current VTR 2400/512 deal... So back to my point, Chile sure has ways to go, but it's actually not that bad already. I agree that access to a broader proportion of the population is a concern but I'm not sure it's all or nothing. It seems these internet cafes are everywhere.
At 7:14 PM, Chileno said...: It's VTR but I get your point. I wonder if those smaller companies would serve my house, but in most of Santiago my understanding is it's either Telefonica or VTR, effectively a monopoly although I've heard there actually is a choice between the two in some spots. VTR is much better. Anyway, you sound a lot more informed on the complexities of broadband, all I know is that I'm paying twice/thrice as much and half the time I used Skype I literally have to yell into the headset. Wish it were better, I appreciate your optimism. The legal landscape is encouraging, read what I wrote for the Santiago Times about it.

>>>It seems these internet cafes are everywhere.

More than you know, but I'm still not convinced they're doing much for Chileans, without education. The OLPC might be better technology but still the same problem. Also, gov't inflates stats about tech penetration in homes while a lot of it simply doesn't work or, more importantly, people don't know how to use it. I had major computer problems and was condemned to an internet cafe and young people, everyone just chats on MSN all the time it's hilarious, but is there any value in that? It's like Gates Foundation donated a bunch to US libraries but it's not like the Carnegie Buildings, you have to provide instruction and even in the US libraries et al are just winging it for community members, in Chile I've seen nothing about community outreach teaching kids and community members computer literacy. Could be. I would be totally surprised. I'm sure SEK is bleeding edge but again, we're talking vast inequality. Upper crust Chileans have always been competitive globally.
At 12:50 AM, El Comendador said...: Bonjour, Olivier ...

I found your fascinating blog through reading Will's 'Chileno' blog - and I both chuckled at and admired the exchange of ideas - partcularly once Will got past his combative style. One often has to think about arguing against his ardour and outrage at the social drawbacks he sees in Chile since it often triggers a too-vigourous and intemperate response. But you overcame it - congratulations ;-)

Will is a very decent and caring young American - who chooses to live and grow in Chile and to 'call the shots the way he sees them' in his Chileno blog. I was pleased to see your clearly expressed views in your comments - and in Will's more measured responses.

I met Will in Santiago in May in a month-long vacation/reunion I had there after a 5-year absence. It was my 24th trip to Chile - since 1988 and through the 90's when I lived in Chile about 1/3 of my time. And I loved Chile - and still do.

Somewhere in this blog world (under "el comendador", I tell my story of 'discovering' Chile through meeting two exiled students in Australia in the 80's. Long story short - I hired them for our Melbourne office with a view to bringing them to Vancouver to do IT and CAD work on some of our Chilean engineering projects. We also dreamed of sending them 'home' to Chile when things got safer (post the Si/No plebiscito in '88) and to, one day, walk down the Alameda with them in a 'free' Chile. This we did - together with Presidente Aylwin in '89 on Election night.

I opened an office in Santiago and did IT consulting engineering (large process manufacturing sector) there through the 90's, and became very involved with an 'hogar' for homeless kids - my real interest in post-Pinochet Chile. I was also involved with some significant Concertacion people during that time and was invited to attend the Aylwin, Frei and Lagos Inauguracions. Ultimately I was made a "Comendador de la Orden de Bernardo O'Higgins" for my work with kids down there - and for a student exchange program we organized between Canada and Chile with Sr. Ricardo Lagos, who was Education Minister in Aylwin's cabinet.

Like Will Sherman, I am very disappointed at the lack in progress in the distribution of the benefits of a growing economy in the last 17 years. Chile's long history of an elite-driven economy and social order still has a long way to go. Especially true in these 'Friedman-dogma' days of unfettered free-market capitalism. The benefits of an impressively growing economy are not shared with the 'gente' to anything like what I had hoped for and expected. Perhaps it takes decades, if not generations to see a more equitable wealth distribution develop - especially in South America.

But, that aside, I loved my time in Chile and things HAVE gotten better in the past 17 years. I certainly enjoy reading your impressions and share your enthusiasm for conducting business in Chile. I wish you and your family well - certainly my family loved our time there too. My adopted son and the young students I originally became involved with have 6 kids between them - two of them named 'Tomas' for this aging Canadian grandfather.

I meant to post this to your blog, Olvier - but it doesn't accept comments ???

And Will - your entries are getting better all the time and are attracting some very interesting comments and arguments. Gracias, amigo!
At 1:44 AM, Chileno said...: It's just that I don't know how to make friends, and Tom is a repeat character witness. Tom you're doing wonders for my 'tough guy' image. Anyway, what I meant to say Olivier was "welcome to Chile" and I was going to leave a comment but then the comment function didn't work and I found where you said "comment on your own blog" and I said "watch me", and it turned from an antagonistic comment into an abusive blog review. For some reason I always end up on the defensive when doing these things, and eventually someone jumps in and rebukes me for even suggesting that a police state with the world's worst inequality could be called "third world" when plenty of Chileans themselves call it that. Why listen to them when the Economist knows so much better. Don't wanna put words in your mouth Olivier but you're the third time I'd seen that article cited, blame it on the two people who sent the article in to 'Chileno' already, it was the last straw. Well, each time was kindathe last straw, but you get my point.
At 2:17 AM, Anonymous said...: Olivier, I also admire your ability to surpass Will's axe. I am also impressed that Will brought his arguments down to a civilized level, and reached his goal of keeping me reading.
I would particularly like to comment on the remarks about private schools. Here in Austria where I live there are some particular programs which are taught 90% in English in public school, or bilingual programs depending on which school you go to, including Bilingual Slovene-German Public school from Kindergarten till Matura (graduation diploma) Regarding private schools, I don"t know. There were two private bilingual Kindergartens (English-German), now only one. I teach English in a Kindergarten, where my minimal salary is paid for by the state, unfortunately an exception. In other Kindergartens Englisch or Italian is most often paid for by the parents.
Regarding children with lap tops, I don't see the benefit in that one, unless there is a specific focus on computer work, design, etc. In secondary schools here in Austria children bring lap tops for fashion design, CAD or because the schools have a focus on computers, programming, etc.. I do however see most children with mobile phones and even ocassionally one in Kindergarten.
Regarding American schools, my elementary school was bilingual, but not for me, which meant they had special ESL instruction taught in Spanish. This meant the students would take twice as long or more to learn English. The advantage for me was I understood a bit of Spanish without ever taking it in High School. I took French. I wasn"t alowd to take it until I was 15. Regarding languages, the USA is about as far behind as any country.
Ramsey
At 6:17 AM, Olivier Travers said...: Thanks for this last batch of comments, they'll give me food for thoughts for a while. Sorry about the broken comments on my blog, my host turned them off after I was bombarded with spam and I never fixed it. I knew Will's blog already and his abrasive tone so when I saw his scorching review I found it fun rather than offensive. His writing his good enough that I thought it was worth a shot to engage in civil debate instead of complaining about personal abuse (I have thicker skin). I think we got good value out of the conversation, I now I did. (I pointed to it from my post.) I'm no doubt going through the usual expat cycle: all roses in the beginning, then hurdles and disappointment, then adaptation. It's not a bad thing that you guys are keeping me honest and point to how you see reality. Again though, I understand Chile ain't Switzerland and won't turn into it overnight, if ever.

About kids with laptops, from the little I've seen so far after two visits at SEK, they use their computers to take notes and get material from teachers. I've also overseen them using Google or Wikipedia at the library, presumably under the teacher's guidance. Knowing how to search and how to qualify whether the random Wikipedia entry is worth believing are skills worth acquiring, whether to be a more aware citizen or to enter the workforce.

The digital literacy point is very valid. Past the superficial MSN chats, does the average Chilean youngster knows, say, how to search the web effectively or express themselves in non-SMS language? Hmm, I wonder how much it would cost to run a Digital 101 bus across the country. I've heard good things of similar initiatives in other countries in the past. Maybe that's been done here already for all I know.

In case that wasn't obvious already, I'm a big believer in the free market, but I also understand that free markets thrive thanks to the rule of law and an educated population. The question is, how do you spread education efficiently? Here's a provocative question: the young, relatively poor people that chat all day in internet cafes, do they have the drive and curiosity to stop chatting and start reading? There's a lot of free educational content out there, a click away (presumably in Spanish too). Education can't be only a top-to-bottom process, there needs to be some sort of bottom-up demand too.
At 11:04 AM, M said...: RWS: You apparently haven't visited the actual poor neighborhoods of Chile. I am pretty sure there is no one in America who lives in a self-made shack with no running water or accessible toilet facilities, vulnerable to being killed any time it rains, unless by choice.
At 12:41 PM, Coquimbojoe said...: Hey Chileno, they speak Castellano in Chile.
At 12:49 PM, Chileno said...: They also speak English. Or try to. God do they try. What's your point?
At 1:56 PM, Anonymous said...: "...but broadband in Chile is among the most expensive in the world. It is, as one Chilean in line at Telefonica explained to me, the "Spanish" model, where large market penetration is not the goal, but rather maxing out fees and charges on an existing, if smaller, market share..."

That is pretty much the model for all Chilean busineses. They're not interested in VOLUME, like say a WalMart, they're interested in the MARKUP.
At 2:09 PM, Chileno said...: As a business strategy markup is fundamentally anti-democratic and classist. Welcome to Chile.