Sorry, Pato.
I didn't mean to do it. I thought it was just some innocent horseplay. I thought it would be fun to Surf the 'Net and learn some Kool Lucha Libre Moves and try them out on you. But when you stopped breathing, I became frightened.
Upon returning with the paramedics, my worse fear came true: someone had already gotten to you. I had left you looking pale and limp, but words cannot express my horror at seeing your lifeless corpse beaten to a bloody pulp (see comment #16).
Gulp.
Looks like I've got some splainin' to do.
I'll try.
It all started when Pato (R.I.P.) said, "I'd love to now what the hell you're doing in Chile". Unwittingly, he touched on an question that I'd already had in store for my new Chileno FAQ. But a FAQ, even a Chileno FAQ, can't explain a bloody corpse. So I continue:
Tomás Dinges, who is soon to grace the Halls of Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, whose family hosted the Queen of England during her Visit to Chile, chose a more delicate yet equally poignant form of expressing Pato's sentiment when he nudgingly proposed not only that I leave Chile but that I "go suck dick in Argentina".
Both Pato and Tomás are Chilean. When confronted, Pato was unable to coherently defend his position and he died. Tomás, however, showed lucidity. Tomás lives on. A much better choh than Pato's pathetic, slightly nationalistic ramblings, it was relegated to a series of email exchanges which Tomás and I agreed should make their way online at some point. This is that point. (And I hope, officer, this serves as an explanation). So without further ado, I welcome you to:
TOMÁS VS CHILENO...FIGHT!
Tomás starts out swinging, showing no sign of backing down. He calls it "tiresome" to hear my constant complaints about Chile, and notes that it can't be healthy for me to stay on here. If the air is so SMOGGY, the food so SOGGY, you really, really should leave.
Bam.
I'm stunned, like being head butted in the face, I fall back against the ropes. Tomás circles round the ring waving two fists in the air to an uproarious crowd, a million flash bulbs flashing. He comes back to where I am, climbs up the railing and bellows:
For me its the fresh fruit markets...but that is something you can probably find in Argentina...But I want to be here and find particular joy in the fresh fruit markets HERE, and no where else.
The stadium is converted into a sea of red, white and blue Chilean flags and the sound becomes deafening. Somehow his voice, like a bugle call over the din of War, manages to be heard by all as he cries out that my blog is "painful to read" before dropping down in a tornillo with an intent to planchar.
In the nick of time I spin out and Tomás slams into nothing but his own shadow and a few smudges of blood I'd left behind. With my foot pressed against his face, I speak to a dumbstruck crowd, my words punctuated by the gurgling sound of Tomás' resistance.
Leave Chile? Why the urge to usher me out? What's the sentiment?
Enjoy Chile, or leave Chile. Colgate or Crest. Is that the mentality? An exploitative north American sampling the local culture and taking pictures? Should I apply for a refund if I'm not satisfied with my experience? This "love it or leave it" mentality suggests that tourism is the only capacity of a foreigner, and it's insulting.
Xenophobia? Not you Tomás, but [turns to crowd] all of Chile. Okay, not all of Chile, but rather the typical provincial xenophobia that seems to be so common a defense in uncomfortable encounters here. When, on the metro, I complain to people for standing in the doorway as I try to get on, forcing me to push into them and potentially knock the baby out of their arms -- they stand there when there's plenty of room further back -- I complain and inevitably will overhear "oh, it's because he's a foreigner".
Or when I knock on a neighbor's door and ask her to turn her music down, or Tío José, the bus driver who let's his car alarm whistle for 10 minutes straight, the typical response is: oh, well, in your country...
...which is fine if we're talking about backwater Chile (like backwater US). But this is the center of the Capital City, Santiago de Chile. Could it get more provincial and xenophobic than this?
Culture of Exile. Deal with your problems by leaving Chile. Whether you're an aristocrat packing up when Allende comes into office or a leftist escaping torture and death, Exile has been a prominent feature in Chilean history.
Yet I would caution both Tomás and Pato to be very, very careful when recommending Exit as a solution to anybody unhappy with some or all aspects of Chile. (Btw: for me it's obviously some. Any intelligent reader can review the Archives and find a huge collection of positive entries about Chile. Tomás acknowledged this, Pato tried to take credit for one of them, the fresco). Anyway, Exile is part of your history which you should not forget, but I would humbly recommend you not see it as a solution for those who are dissatisfied with certain aspects of Chile.
At this point Tomás' gurgles grow increasingly loud so I release pressure and allow him to talk. Seeing an advantage, he grabs my calf and with the other arm applies pressure to my knee, sending me down. He says:
Generally those who detract constantly, in a democratic society, without seeing anything positive or worthwhile, leave. This describes the experience of exiles who have returned after their stay in the Bay area, Paris, Mexico or DC. They are all bitter and resentful at the Chile that they see or experience, don't see anything worthwhile, and leave on their own terms, to where they are more comfortable. The people who stay, stay because they like it and if they choose to partake in changing the negative environment they see around them, they apply their positive energy towards this situation.
The argument is that I don't apply positive energy to changing Chile, just predictable expat bile. But I'm not down for long. I quickly spin back and hurl him into the side of the ring. I say:
I'm against whitewashing Chile, bitch. Let's open our High School history books:
1939 -- Controversy over John Steinbeck's book The Grapes of Wrath led to a decision to ban it from Kern County libraries and schools. The Bakersfield Chamber of Commerce ran a 3-reel film called The Plums of Plenty in rebuttal.
PLUMS OF PLENTY!
Sure, I like fresh fruit markets here too, I'm into the authenticity, great prices, and folksy, distinctly Chilean experience. Sure.
But let's not pretend that Chile is a haven of gusto and good cuisine. Far from it. Sure you can find good food if you really, really look hard.
But the other day I was walking near the Alameda and we overheard a group of Chilean kids laughing about the mayonnaise they'd been served somewhere. "So rotten it was black" one of them yelled to the screams of humorous delight of his compatriots. Tomás, tell me with a straight face that's a surprise in a town like Santiago. Or badly-prepared, dry, hormone pumped meat at cualquier chicheria. Beer with metallic aftertaste, smells of sewer mixed with car exhaust, Santiago was once a fertile valley, whose earth has been plowed with salt.
There are also good things about Santiago, and I don't refrain from talking about those. But if I were to go on about the fresh fruit market without giving an honest assessment of the sickening nature of Santiago, I'd be dishonest.
Picking up Tomas, I throw him over the ropes, saying:
And a note about self-criticism, which Chileans like Pato and sometimes you seem to have such a hard time with. I know why it might be hard for you; it might be confused with 'positive discrimination' which in simpler words is kinda like self hatred, a lack of feeling of self-worth that Chileans are slowly emerging from after Pinochet. Yet there is a difference, and now is the time for Chileans to acknowledge that difference and learn to constructively criticize themselves.
[Despite being thrown out of the ring Tomas lands easily because he is good at constructively criticizing Chile]. But nevertheless the crowd liked the stunt, and I follow up by yelling:
On the world-scale, nobody really gives a shit about Chile, and so the Plums of Plenty crowd gets away with murder. I give a shit about Chile, and I bitch.
With that the crowd becomes a sea of red, white and blue Chilean flags and the sound is deafening. I'm picked up and transported out of the stadium in a human wave of adulation. Once out the door I dart away, escaping Justice:
Pato is dead, and I don't think the officer is satisfied with my explanation.
Upon returning with the paramedics, my worse fear came true: someone had already gotten to you. I had left you looking pale and limp, but words cannot express my horror at seeing your lifeless corpse beaten to a bloody pulp (see comment #16).
Gulp.
Looks like I've got some splainin' to do.
I'll try.
It all started when Pato (R.I.P.) said, "I'd love to now what the hell you're doing in Chile". Unwittingly, he touched on an question that I'd already had in store for my new Chileno FAQ. But a FAQ, even a Chileno FAQ, can't explain a bloody corpse. So I continue:
Tomás Dinges, who is soon to grace the Halls of Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, whose family hosted the Queen of England during her Visit to Chile, chose a more delicate yet equally poignant form of expressing Pato's sentiment when he nudgingly proposed not only that I leave Chile but that I "go suck dick in Argentina".
Both Pato and Tomás are Chilean. When confronted, Pato was unable to coherently defend his position and he died. Tomás, however, showed lucidity. Tomás lives on. A much better choh than Pato's pathetic, slightly nationalistic ramblings, it was relegated to a series of email exchanges which Tomás and I agreed should make their way online at some point. This is that point. (And I hope, officer, this serves as an explanation). So without further ado, I welcome you to:
TOMÁS VS CHILENO...FIGHT!
Tomás starts out swinging, showing no sign of backing down. He calls it "tiresome" to hear my constant complaints about Chile, and notes that it can't be healthy for me to stay on here. If the air is so SMOGGY, the food so SOGGY, you really, really should leave.
Bam.
I'm stunned, like being head butted in the face, I fall back against the ropes. Tomás circles round the ring waving two fists in the air to an uproarious crowd, a million flash bulbs flashing. He comes back to where I am, climbs up the railing and bellows:
For me its the fresh fruit markets...but that is something you can probably find in Argentina...But I want to be here and find particular joy in the fresh fruit markets HERE, and no where else.
The stadium is converted into a sea of red, white and blue Chilean flags and the sound becomes deafening. Somehow his voice, like a bugle call over the din of War, manages to be heard by all as he cries out that my blog is "painful to read" before dropping down in a tornillo with an intent to planchar.
In the nick of time I spin out and Tomás slams into nothing but his own shadow and a few smudges of blood I'd left behind. With my foot pressed against his face, I speak to a dumbstruck crowd, my words punctuated by the gurgling sound of Tomás' resistance.
Leave Chile? Why the urge to usher me out? What's the sentiment?
Enjoy Chile, or leave Chile. Colgate or Crest. Is that the mentality? An exploitative north American sampling the local culture and taking pictures? Should I apply for a refund if I'm not satisfied with my experience? This "love it or leave it" mentality suggests that tourism is the only capacity of a foreigner, and it's insulting.
Xenophobia? Not you Tomás, but [turns to crowd] all of Chile. Okay, not all of Chile, but rather the typical provincial xenophobia that seems to be so common a defense in uncomfortable encounters here. When, on the metro, I complain to people for standing in the doorway as I try to get on, forcing me to push into them and potentially knock the baby out of their arms -- they stand there when there's plenty of room further back -- I complain and inevitably will overhear "oh, it's because he's a foreigner".
Or when I knock on a neighbor's door and ask her to turn her music down, or Tío José, the bus driver who let's his car alarm whistle for 10 minutes straight, the typical response is: oh, well, in your country...
...which is fine if we're talking about backwater Chile (like backwater US). But this is the center of the Capital City, Santiago de Chile. Could it get more provincial and xenophobic than this?
Culture of Exile. Deal with your problems by leaving Chile. Whether you're an aristocrat packing up when Allende comes into office or a leftist escaping torture and death, Exile has been a prominent feature in Chilean history.
Yet I would caution both Tomás and Pato to be very, very careful when recommending Exit as a solution to anybody unhappy with some or all aspects of Chile. (Btw: for me it's obviously some. Any intelligent reader can review the Archives and find a huge collection of positive entries about Chile. Tomás acknowledged this, Pato tried to take credit for one of them, the fresco). Anyway, Exile is part of your history which you should not forget, but I would humbly recommend you not see it as a solution for those who are dissatisfied with certain aspects of Chile.
At this point Tomás' gurgles grow increasingly loud so I release pressure and allow him to talk. Seeing an advantage, he grabs my calf and with the other arm applies pressure to my knee, sending me down. He says:
Generally those who detract constantly, in a democratic society, without seeing anything positive or worthwhile, leave. This describes the experience of exiles who have returned after their stay in the Bay area, Paris, Mexico or DC. They are all bitter and resentful at the Chile that they see or experience, don't see anything worthwhile, and leave on their own terms, to where they are more comfortable. The people who stay, stay because they like it and if they choose to partake in changing the negative environment they see around them, they apply their positive energy towards this situation.
The argument is that I don't apply positive energy to changing Chile, just predictable expat bile. But I'm not down for long. I quickly spin back and hurl him into the side of the ring. I say:
I'm against whitewashing Chile, bitch. Let's open our High School history books:
1939 -- Controversy over John Steinbeck's book The Grapes of Wrath led to a decision to ban it from Kern County libraries and schools. The Bakersfield Chamber of Commerce ran a 3-reel film called The Plums of Plenty in rebuttal.
PLUMS OF PLENTY!
Sure, I like fresh fruit markets here too, I'm into the authenticity, great prices, and folksy, distinctly Chilean experience. Sure.
But let's not pretend that Chile is a haven of gusto and good cuisine. Far from it. Sure you can find good food if you really, really look hard.
But the other day I was walking near the Alameda and we overheard a group of Chilean kids laughing about the mayonnaise they'd been served somewhere. "So rotten it was black" one of them yelled to the screams of humorous delight of his compatriots. Tomás, tell me with a straight face that's a surprise in a town like Santiago. Or badly-prepared, dry, hormone pumped meat at cualquier chicheria. Beer with metallic aftertaste, smells of sewer mixed with car exhaust, Santiago was once a fertile valley, whose earth has been plowed with salt.
There are also good things about Santiago, and I don't refrain from talking about those. But if I were to go on about the fresh fruit market without giving an honest assessment of the sickening nature of Santiago, I'd be dishonest.
Picking up Tomas, I throw him over the ropes, saying:
And a note about self-criticism, which Chileans like Pato and sometimes you seem to have such a hard time with. I know why it might be hard for you; it might be confused with 'positive discrimination' which in simpler words is kinda like self hatred, a lack of feeling of self-worth that Chileans are slowly emerging from after Pinochet. Yet there is a difference, and now is the time for Chileans to acknowledge that difference and learn to constructively criticize themselves.
[Despite being thrown out of the ring Tomas lands easily because he is good at constructively criticizing Chile]. But nevertheless the crowd liked the stunt, and I follow up by yelling:
On the world-scale, nobody really gives a shit about Chile, and so the Plums of Plenty crowd gets away with murder. I give a shit about Chile, and I bitch.
With that the crowd becomes a sea of red, white and blue Chilean flags and the sound is deafening. I'm picked up and transported out of the stadium in a human wave of adulation. Once out the door I dart away, escaping Justice:
Pato is dead, and I don't think the officer is satisfied with my explanation.
















18 Comments:
WOW!! I can't believe the impact I've had in this gringo forum.
Chileno, as you mentioned before, I don't know the "rules of blogging" so please excuse the lack of structure in my comment here:
I'd like to reply shortly to the comments of "Faithfull lurker!":
- My gringa girlfriend is actually Amercan-Korean (why did you assume she was white??)...and she's hot
- The INS bothers us because they have no idea what they are doing, I work for the gringoest of the companies (Disney) and I'm not the only foreigner that feels the same way here
- Why am I still in the US?? because my gf and I are trying to figure out what to do with our lives...it is not easy.
And Chileno, I don't really know how to reply to your posting...you see, I am no literature major or a journalist for that matter, I'm just a finance guy...but congrats on the imagination because a gringo would never beat a real chileno in a fight, that is unless they bomb him first...te estoy weviando gringocuu!!!
You got off lucky with Pato. If you were blogging in Argentina and you said some of the things you did you'd be receiving death threats and quite possibly worse for daring to criticise the country. Chileans are little kitty-cats when it comes to rampant nationalism, over reactions and 'get the fuck out of my country you gringo fuckwit' comments. Nobody does any of these things as well as the Argentine/foreigners with a lot of money to lose when the economy goes belly up and property prices crash anti-expat thought-police...
i'd put the following links as proper links if i could be bothered..you're just going to have to copy and paste them as it is...
http://dfordisorientation.blogspot.com/2007/05/rip-sir-no-sir.html
http://bitchtours.blogspot.com/2007/06/about-people-who-criticize-in-blogs.html
http://bitchtours.blogspot.com/2007/05/war-between-ba-bloggers.html
Dearest Will,
Are you trying got be sarcastic or ironic with this particular new entry? How can you compare Pato and Tomas Dinges? Yes both might be "Chilenos" but that is where the similarities end. Tomas was raised in an intelligentsia and meritocratic household. As a little boy Tomas was exposed to brilliant people such as scholars, authors, heads of state, political activists, and other fascinating individuals with diverse points of view shaping an articulate and observerist young lad with a keen eye for social commentary. Meanwhile Pato was brought up in a blighted environment where little Patito was not expected to challenge the "status quo" let alone do anything constructive with his schlocky life.
See there are many other deeper problems that most Chilenos will ever want to admit to. The masses are mostly content to bask in their new "purchasing power" which in reality is masking a new way to keep the oppression going. It is what you call Falladueda. Making the industrialist richer than they already are. I can hear them laughing loudly all the way to their Swiss bank accounts.
You my dear Will stroked a nerve many compatriots do not like petted. The "fend-for-yourself" mentality of the masses is what has made many Santiaguinos into frightfully rude androids over the last decades. A far cry from the days when people in Chile faithfully strived to live by the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" ethos.
Yours truly,
Faithfull Lurker
Pato:
You're alive! Thank God, I'd thought I lost you buddy. Nice to see you're back with your characteristic inanity. Most of my readers seem to dislike you and your particular style of argumentation. I should probably listen to them and shut you off, but for some reason I enjoy playing with you. Where to start.
Weón, your inability to intelligently respond to this post or most of my questions posed in the past has nothing to do with your profession. You don't have to be a "writer" or "journalist" to express yourself sensibly and respond to questions I ask you. Am I to assume that because Pato has a very hard time expressing himself that I therefore can't hope to have an intelligent conversation with anyone from the finance industry?
Weón, you did the same thing when you said "ask any Chilean" and they'll tell you they're proud of their rasco country. You're projecting your own limited intelligence upon other people who would be insulted to be accused of thinking the same way you do. Totally fresco you crack me up.
You've had an impact on this 'Gringo forum', like all the other Chileans who are commenting (equally a 'Chilean' forum if you go by sheer numbers mr. finance guy) because you represent a certain base and idiotic form of nationalism from which Chile suffers. In a private email to me a thoughtful Chilean referred to you as "probably facha". I think it's important to showcase and address your mentality on this blog because it is something that Chile has to reckon with and move on from. At least that's what I've gathered from books, movie by and conversations with Chileans for over a year and a half here.
To give you yet another chance at upping my estimation of your intelligence. I asked you a little while back to find past entries of mine that were critical of Chile without being constructively critical. What have you found?
Matt:
>>>You got off lucky with Pato.
Yo, Pato got off lucky with me.
>>>Chileans are little kitty-cats...
Boy do you have a lot to learn about Chile.
FL:
Contrasting, not comparing. The only similarity is that they both reacted negatively to my blog at some point. I consider Tomás' reaction and follow-up much more constructive and because he is a) intelligent and b) a friend so his words have a greater impact on me. Pato can't even get his poto off the ground to engage me in any truly fruitful criticism I'd hope that changes but I don't believe it will. Still, I plan to keep giving him airtime for reasons explained above.
Pato
To answer your question I did not assume she is "white". Just went by what you wrote and then analized it. Pato my dear you exhibit the classic cliches of many male Chilenos living abroad.
Second why do you have to mention she is "Hot"! Does it make you feel more "macho". your with a pretty girl? You proved my point since in Chile you could not get a pretty girl. Tell me this, is your Korean-American girlfriend "Hot" because she is herself half white? You just showed everyone, you are a very superficial and shallow individual. Don't you get it no one in California is impressed your banging a pretty girl. Sorry to break it to you they are a dime a dozen in big American cities. Go to any poshie lounge in LA, San Francisco or NYC and you will see nothing but breathtakingly stunning young women, most are fashion models especially the ones that haunt NYC. A Centurion Card is needed in order to play with them. People have become blase in those cities when it comes to physical beauty. No one is impressed by beauty anymore, Americans have become jaded. So by "touting your own horn" you end up looking like a egocentric individual. Don't forget outer beauty withers and fades over time. The greatest beauties lost their looks after their shelf life was up. Inner beauty is ever lasting and eternal a quality that is cultivated from the soul.
Third it is interesting you ended up with an Asian since they are not exempt from having the same self-loathing character traits shared by so many other minorities. In fact countries like Japan and Korea suffer from a very severe case of colorism. The Asian-market buys the most "white lighting skin creams" in the world. The Asian Market or cities with large concentrations of Asians have high numbers of Blepharoplasty(Eyelid)surgeries performed to make their eyes look round and "western". Then there are other more intensive procedures where they "file" and reshape a face to erase ethnic features. All those types of surgeries are the rage in Asia and places like California. All of it comes from the effects of colonialism, emperialism. North American and European companies are constantly feeding and subconsciously brain washing in the rest of the world with the notion of the "Ideal" man and woman is Caucasian.
The INS bothers us because they have no idea what they are doing? Pato that sentence did not make any sense. Did you smoke one to many blunts? Let me tell you something the INS knows more than you ever care to imagine. You know the INS works along with the FBI. Once you become legal you should check your FBI file and you will be surprised at all the details they write there has been an anti-immigrant aura going on and the goverment has encourage the FBI to keep track of people, especially the immigrants. Someone had to be spacegoated so it's the immigrants turn to be wipping boy. If your paper's are not in check you must be working with false papers, until they find out. If they figure out you put a "wool over their head they won't be happy. The most "gringoest" of companies all do extensive background checks to see if you have misrepresented yourself during the interviewing process.
We all know Pato can't eloquently express himself, being a boring "Finance guy" does not matter. There are guys I know who are hedge-fund managers and they are the most articulate human beings I ever meet. It's all comes down to the upbringing you had. The combination of a good education and positive encouragement they received as a small child made them capable of expressing their feelings.
Nothing in life that is worthwhile will be easily achieved. The American work ethic is quite different than the Chilean. Pato be prepared work harder than you ever imagine to achieve the so-called "American Dream".
Matt
The Argentine psychie got a huge blow after 2002, especially the Porteños. They lost their title as the #1 in the continent and they know it. The rest of the country has been always much more mellow than the capital federal. You know the white Argentineans especially the rich ones like to call the brown-eyed, dark haired tan skinned mestizos "negros". The "negros" from the villas pretty much take the abusive descrimination, they know they have many strikes already against them since the policia federal already likes beating them. One of the South American indisincracies is; people will let you descriminate them if you are above them in the social-hiarchy. Or they deem you better.
As for Chileans being little itty bitty kitty-cats well a kittie can still starch you deeply. Perfect analogy for the passive-agressive
character trait many Chilenos have. A gift from Pinochet!
Santiago was once a fertile valley, whose earth has been plowed with salt.
This quote is good, too good. You do have a gift for eloquent expression. I suppose your blog is a good enough reason for you to stay in Chile. Otherwise (I ask you again) why are you still there? And in Santiago? I thought you were moving to Valparaiso?
Seeing as how you are not really Chilean (or do you consider yourself one already?) you don't have any responsibility to stick around and constructively criticize the locals.
I could almost write a similar blog about Austria, except it would be too boring. We just have a governor that is the son of Nazis that were Nazis before Hitler was in power, got rich from forestry land aquired by his SS Uncle from a Jewish couple, SS members dieing still head of the surgery department of the hospital and the public water system being sold out to private investors. Otherwise a boring country where the environment is extremely clean, the people are of the opinion things shouldn't change with such typical quotes: "it's always been that way" or "we've never done it that way" yet happy to praise any innovation that is successful, and in the words of Hans Söllner (of Bavaria) "Cristal clear water, and the people are f-ing dumn". (my best translation).
I ask myself often why I live here.
I can list at least 100 positive reasons to be here.
Can you list three reasons why you are living in Santiago?
Ramsey
Dude, check my response at http://tomasdinges.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/don-guill-y-chile-mierda-response/
I agree with Matt's comments...man you go for the kill don't you. Blood is cool, but sometimes unnecessary.
Faithful Lurker...are you speculating about my formation, or do you know me, or have known me in the past. I don't remember any heads of state.
Will...WTF..."characteristic inanity"??? and the rest of your comments. What did you call that earlier...flaming. Would you say that to Pato's face in their was the occasion? Give it a rest, release the hold. The lucha libre post was like two posts ago...
FL
I like hot girls, and spacegoating.
Yo, Tomas, try to do some closer-reading before you comment. Matt's point was that the Argentineans go for the kill.
Also, I'm not flaming at Pato because I would totally say the same things to him in person. I haven't called you a dumbass in person because you're not. But Pato is, and consistently so, and I would tell it to him in person.
>>>The lucha libre post was like two posts ago...
It would be 0 posts ago if I posted as infrequently as you do ;-) And besides, I'm responding to a comment of his within the same post. I know Pato is inarticulate and can't really defend himself, and you show that by trying to step in for him, but you're not really helping. Pato is beyond help.
Tomas,
Speculating is not part of my personality. I was praising you for being an articulate person.:) Such a rare trait in our "MTVed" generation.
Will
Argentineans got off their high horse a few years ago. Life has many spins. They used to come to Chile to vacation, how the tables turned. ;) Now it is the Chilenos turn who are shopping and taking advantage of the exchange rate.
Great little blog you got here! :)
I never said Argentineans were on their high horse. I think that was Matt. Anyway, Mendoza is a perfect place to see the effects of that economic switch-a-roo between Chile and Argentina, and talk to people about it.
One I went there a cab driver told me how he was no major fan of Chileans. That once a Chilean got in and started spouting off about the fact that Chileans saved Mendoza's economy. He said something like 'It's thanks to us that you can eat, you guys are nothing without us Chileans'.
What the Chilean didn't realize was that he wasn't in Chile, where Master & Servant mentality makes it possible to get away with that shit.
The cab driver left him on the curb, howling curses and without a ride.
HI Will :)
Actually the "Master & Slave" mentality does work in Argentina. The big difference is that because of Argentina's own idiosincracies the "Argies" will not accept snippy comments from a Brazuca, Chilota, Perucho, Bolita, or any other fellow "Sudaca"; No matter how low he is on the "tatum pole". The Argentinos are more likely to put up with bitchieness if it comes from a pretty blonde clone or "cheto" European.
>>>Pato said...
WOW!! I can't believe the impact I've had in this gringo forum.<<
No my mam he did the good ol American thing. He exploited the hell out of you. ;)
>>> He exploited the hell out of you. ;)
Yo, Anonymous Coward, that comment was totally racist...against Chileans. Here's why:
You just implied that by being more intelligent than Pato and easily crushing him rhetorically I'm "American" and exploitative. I would do the same thing to Pato if he were Gringo. I bludgeoned him with words because he's stupid, not because he's South American. Your comment says expressly that Pato lost because he was exploited by a North American, and you are saying, implicitly, that because he's not a North American that he's stupider.
You're attitude is a text-book case of dumbass do-gooder gringo LATINAMERICANISM. Look it up, it's analogous to Edward Said's Orientalism.
Will
If I forgot to put my name, excuse me for my "Space Cadet" moment, but it by no way means it merits calling me a "coward". The other comment where it said, I voted for you and the cartoon reminded of Gumby was also me. Sometimes I forget and click away. Anyways, I been honest about my point of view and not one to compromise it. Wills, you also know that I have a subversive sense of humor and some of my sharp-tongued comments can be interpreted as impertinent.
How can you think I exhibit a form of LatinAmericanism? When I was the one who always mentioned a dislike, for all that it entails . When you look at my past comments, I compared the striking similarities between the the long lasting effects of colonialism as well as eurocentrism Asia between Latin America.
As much as I may enjoy reading post-colonial theories by Edward Saïd there is always a dark cloud of suspicion on my behalf. Even though he rightfully challenged many of the ethos placed by the Europeans he took advantage of the superb education of the English Public Schools provided by British colonial era in Cairo. Then he attended and graduate from an Ivy League University which at that time was heavily conservative and Waspy. His adult life was spent teaching at the most prestigious universities. See for me the intelligentsia's belief in a fair meritocratic society, where even if one is marginalized one can overcome and rise from the bottom. They expressed concern over injustices and advocated for them but somehow they keep their "space" from the disfranchised they are trying so much to help. I don't know if this is a part of me has become jaded over time, but they are basically good natured theories. Nevethless the masses still struggle with poverty's ill as they have before. The acedemia meliu lives just as elegantly and refined as those who are part of the upper-echleons of society.
Anonymous, good point on exploitation. Will is a good American. Pato can`t you understandd that you are just part of a school-yard game in which Will holds clearer advantages.
Will, man you are sensitive with all this easy meat lying around, aren't you full yet?? Maybe anonymous is implying that you are racist against Chileans, but maybe he SIMPLY IMPLYING that you are like regular Americans...be it in their country or others...The foundation of America, as well as other places in the world, is based on exploitation. The United States and its people are particularly good at this.
I didnt think of you as exploiting Pato just because of a difference in nationality, but just because of yours.
Will I was not wrong about going in for the kill. I was referring to you, and your incessant harping on Pato and his imperfections. Why does he bother you so much, if not that he provides fuel for your all-consuming fire.
FL: So do you know me or not, I don't like speculating either, but having it be part of my character is irrelevant. Are you in DC?
>>>If I forgot to put my name, excuse me for my "Space Cadet" moment, but it by no way means it merits calling me a "coward".
Faithful Lurker, I apologize. I responded to that comment without knowing it was you, and therefore unable to contextualize it within your past comments. If I had been able to contextualize it within your past comments, I would have had a lot more background to work with, namely your sense of humor and your undeniably nuanced understanding of the world. I would have reacted differently. The comments I made were to an "Anonymous" commenter, based on an isolated comment, not to YOU.
That said, I still have questions about your comment. I mean, I'll accept that it was just a joke directed at Pato, who set himself up to be exploited. I still don't understand though because I feel the premise is still that I won because I exploited Pato. I'd ask you to "explain" the joke but that spells disaster to any intended humor ;-)
Anyway, Tomás agrees with the idea that there's an exploitative nature to my treatment of Pato, but fails to explain clearly why it's because I'm an American. Indeed, he chides Pato for not being able to understand that it's the FORMAT, this BLOG, that supposedly gives me the advantage, not our difference in Nationality.
Tomás goes on to say
>>>Will, man you are sensitive with all this easy meat lying around, aren't you full yet??
The connection between sensitivity, meat and satisfaction remains a mystery to me. I encourage T to clarify.
T also says:
>>>The United States and its people are particularly good at [exploitation].
Fair enough. But I still don't see a connection to this having anything to do with me being smarter than Pato.
>>>Maybe anonymous is implying that you are racist against Chileans, but maybe he SIMPLY IMPLYING that you are like regular Americans
T has confused the players in the game. I accused Anonymous of being racist, not the other way around. CLOSE READING, really worth it, T.
>>>your incessant harping on Pato and his imperfections.
Again, a confusion of the players. Pato is the one who incessantly draws attention to his own flaws and half the time I treat humanely, but it's HIM who opens up those topics.
Yes, I ONCE mentioned that perhaps his inability to clearly communicate his ideas had something to do with the Chilean education system. That was probably somewhat below the belt but you have to understand the context. Pato was consistently building arguments on false premises, and so it was hard for me to take his arguments seriously. I found it ridiculous for him to be so proud of a country that had obviously educated him so badly. I'm not more genetically intelligent because I develop better arguments, it's simply a result of me going to school and university and learning basic critical thinking and argumentation skills. You learn that in school. I also know that Chile has a horrible education system for poor or disadvantaged people like Pato. Or is it really good? So I thought perhaps that Pato was a victim of bad education. If he were a wealthier Chilean, he would have had access to better schools, and would more likely be able to express himself better.
It's a question of intelligence, education or some combination of the two. Pato could have faced bad education in the States as well, but that's not worth exploring because he didn't grow up there, he grew up in Chile.
>>>I didnt think of you as exploiting Pato just because of a difference in nationality, but just because of yours.
That statement makes absolutely no sense, T. Analysing my nationality in terms of my supposedly exploitative nature of another requires that the other's nationality be exposed. You can't have one or the other, if you're going to explore my 'exploitation' and 'nationality' in terms of Pato you have to bring Pato's nationality into the equation. Because if he were from the United States it'd be a whole different dynamic if you wish to forward the argument that I'm behaving like an expoitative North American.
I look forward to intelligent discourse from you, T. I know you're capable of it.
Listen I'm one to call things out with much gusto. Always had the courage to say it, when others are afraid to go there.
Plain and simple. Pato let himself to be exploited after he showed the finesse of a raging bull in a fine English China shop. Americans have made exploitation into an art form. Those who are astoundingly astute into nailing the cultural zeitgeist can effectively mine it. Great fortunes have been made by exploiting the masses who are clearly ignorat or obtuse to realize they are being subjugated.
At least most of us in here can eloquently express it and enlighten one another with the opposing point of view. We agree to disagree. Pato clearly can't, his irritational and volatileness is the archetype of the "roto". One thing that this blog showed me, was how excruciatingly uncomfortable the "Patos of the world" make things for themselves. (Thank you C.hileno!) Anyways I am not two-faced, to admit that I eschew people who show deficiency of civility and intelligence. And yes Thomas, our paths have crossed before.
I lived in Chevy Chase, Maryland. ;)
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